All-star masters teams days may be numbered in cross country
All-star masters club teams — involving distance runners from widely varied areas of the country — have been common in recent years, especially at the national masters cross country championships. For example, M40 winner Brian Pope of Mississippi ran for SoCal Track Club at the 2004 club event in Portland, Oregon. So Masters LDR Chairman Norm Green is hoping to tighten the rules a bit. Item No. 49 on the USATF bylaws agenda (proposals for the annual meeting in December) addresses this issue.
Here’s how the proposal reads:
Amend Regulation 7, “Representation,” as follows:
B Residency exceptions: Sport committees shall establish residency requirements for championships’ team scoring, which shall be reflected in the Competition Rules. An Association may permit an athlete who is a bona fide resident to be a member of another Association by the agreement of the two Associations. Agreement may concern individual athletes or all athletes who reside in a certain area. An athlete who is unable to obtain agreement of the two Associations may appeal to the NABR, which shall conduct a hearing by conference call and make a determination on the basis of what is in the best interests of the sport and of the athlete.
Reason: Association clubs have been recruiting members from Associations across the country to attempt to create “all-star” teams for USA Masters Cross Country Championships. The concept of “national teams” is contrary to the spirit and intent of Masters team competition in cross country, especially at the USA Masters Club Cross Country Championships. Law & Legislation arrived at the conclusion that this
L&L recommendation: Acceptable substantive amendment.
Me again: I’m on the record for allowing any four sprinters from the same age group to join for a medal-eligible team in the relays at masters nationals. But the idea of an all-star club team is a different salami altogether. Here I tend to agree with Norm: It ain’t kosher to have a team from “Southern California” led by a different kind of Southerner.
Of course, having Brian Pope on the SoCal team in December 2004 didn’t guarantee a club title. The winner of the M40 group was Team Runners High (with SoCal fifth). But if Brian couldn’t find any other team to help with logistics and espenses, then maybe the rule change could hurt masters. We’ll see.
5 Responses
Hi Ken, Brian has run with us for over 4 years now and it is a great working relationship. We have helped him get to several Championship events like the World Champs in Spain this past summer–which was not a SO CAL team, but a U.S. team–there isn’t anything going on in his Association for Masters and so in this case it would be tough to argue that Brian would be better off not being part of our club.Everyone loves to use use as an example, but runner’s High the Team that actually won has team members from out of the Association and did when they won the Championship last year. Dave Clingan and a few others are transfers from other Associations but no one is pointing the finger at them. The Speed West Club that your on Ken has transfers from our Association the used to be members of our Association and run for SO CAL these transfers go on al the time and we have been hurt as well as benefited from them. The current rules say that if both Associations agree on the transfer that it can be done. As long as people are following the rules I don’t see what the big deal is.–Mark
?The concept of ?national teams? is contrary to the spirit and intent of Masters Team competition in cross country, especially at the USA Masters??
What is the basis for this statement? I couldn?t disagree with it more.
I would be very disappointed if the USATF made a change by limiting teams to associations by residency. I?m a runner from the Missouri Valley association and we will attempt to get more masters athletes involved in track. In the mean time, I?m not getting any younger! Because of national championship races, I have friends from all over the country. I like the fact that I can participate on a team with friends. One of the benefits of competing as a Master runner is the camaraderie and friendships; in my opinion that is the spirit of Masters Team competition. If the rule gets amended, then I will be deprived of one of the most important benefits of masters track competition ? competing on a team of close friends.
In open track ?all-star? teams are the heart and soul of elite competition. The University of Oregon track team is made up of runners from around the world. It would be absurd to require U. of Oregon to field a team restricted to residents of Oregon. Similarly, not all So Cal members live in Southern California.
I would also agree with Mark Cleary with regards to those athletes in areas where the low population can?t produce competitive track teams. This amendment, if passed, may be fine for the large population areas like New York and California, but would be unfair to the rest of us.
Ken…im not clear on what the “issue” is?? Brian Pope has run with SoCal for several years..he followed all the existing rules etc etc etc..Mark Clearys club has basicly given Pope some great opportunities..again a VERY positive thing.More clubs should TRY and do that for their members actually… Where an athlete CHOOSES to run is HIS/HER business..whom he CHOOSES to compete for is HIS/HER business….why is this an “issue”..why doesnt the Masters administration start looking at REAL issues??????? Why dont we get “go after”the people who actually break the rules????? Im a sprinter and im aware that at this years Cross Country National Championships the winning team(M 50-59) ran with a member of another team…in fact someone who has been a memeber of the “other” team for OVER 20 years!!!! How fair is that???? What does Mr Green have to say about things like this???? Why does almost EVERYONE turn their head when the REAL damage is being done???? Brian Pope is NOT the problem…He is doing the right thing..if he chooses to run with SoCal and Mark allows him to join i repeat..WHAT IS THE PROBLEM???? Its fair and its legal.
RE all star teams for masters x-c – is the problem “money” the fairly significant cash prizes for teams at the Club X-C Championship, for example? For my club, the cash is an incentive to get an age group team to participate. We do not have the funds to pay for a competitor’s travel, hotel, and entry fees, so we usually manage to have an age-group team only in the race is within a reasonable distance. For us it is a matter of numbers, we are a small club, but we are one of few that can muster a W 60 team, perhaps soon we will have sufficient numbers for a W 70 team. Meanwhile our members retire and move to other parts of the country. They are loyal to the club and may wish to continue to compete on the national level for us. I can see the issue for clubs at younger age groups but for older runners and especially for older women, the name of the game is to find 3 or 4 women willing and able to compete in a national meet and be on a team.
If the two associations do not mind, what is the problem? Without the ability to have club members from other associations, the number of x-c meets with W 60 and W 70 teams will diminish from very few to none. Without this same ability- the number of w 60 and W 70 relay teams will be non-existant. Gimme a break – don’t create a problem where there is none.
Didn’t see this blog until you (Ken) referenced it on the yahoo board today.
We discussed this very issue at the x-country championships this weekend. In the case of someone like Brian Pope, there simply aren’t any clubs for him to run with in his Association. Simply put, Brian Pope is the only person who cares at all about x-country within a hundred miles of where Brian Pope lives. The So Cal Track
Club gives him a great opportunity to compete with other like-minded individuals at big masters events.
But I MUST address Mark Cleary’s insinuation that our Team Runners High mens 40-49 club champions from 2004 had team members from outside the Association (or, as I suspect he actually means, from outside the geographical region). This is simply untrue, and Mark should know better … well, let me amend that. One of our runners
Oscar Gonzalez, who’d lived in So Cal and trained with Team Runners High for years, moved back east about a month before the Club Championship. I don’t think anyone would fault us for letting Oscar finish out the season with us. You’ll note that Oscar did not run on our Club team this year (when we won again), even though he continues to be a member of our Club and to win New England masters races in a Team Runners High uniform.
Team Runners High takes pride in fielding teams composed of runners from our So Cal Region. Many of us ran for Mark’s So Cal Track Club at one time, and while we have tremendous respect for Mark’s teams and for what Mark has brought this sport, we disagreed with his philosophy of recruiting from around the country for Club Nationals squads. We like being regional.
At present, we have only one member of our Club from a different geographical region: Dave Clingan, who lives in Oregon and competes
for our 50-59 club. I was willing to bend our team rules for Dave because, quite frankly, with the thousands of hours of volunteer work Dave has done for our sport, he’s earned the right to run for whoever the heck he wants to. Also, Dave has a longstanding friendship with members of our team that transcends his relationships with his local running peers in Portland.
Okay, just wanted to straighten out the record.
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