Deadline for lowest entry fee at nationals is 11:59 p.m. June 16
Champion Goldy hands off to Orville Rogers at 2014 nationals in Winston-Salem, N.C.
About Ken Stone
Ken has followed track as an athlete, writer and web-master since the late 1960s, and saw most sessions of track and field at the 1984 Los Angeles and 1996 Atlanta Olympics. He also attended the 1988, 1992, 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012 Trials, the last three as a blogger and Patch correspondent. [More...]
Ken Stone
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27 Responses
I concur. I think that Canada and Worlds are taking away the athletes. Also, the location is not really a tourist attraction for a lot of people and, depending where are you are from, the travel cost are quiet expensive.
I just think they need to bypass attaching the $50 fee and just go to the final date and hope more will come. There are not enough entries to justify keeping that late fee for now.
737 individuals are signed up already for 1880 events.
Thanks for that, tb. Entries are coming in very quickly now, and I do believe we will end up with close to 1150 athletes when all is said and done. I think my original prediction was about 1200.
There is no way in the world that we will get 1400 athletes. This is quite remarkable, as in the “golden age” of masters track and field, 1989-2000, we exceeded 1400 in 25% of our outdoor nationals. After that period we have hit 1400 in exactly 1 of 15 outdoor nationals, or 7%, and we won’t hit that number this year, as noted.
I’ll go over familiar ground here. Since 1989 the population of US citizens aged 30 or over has increased dramatically. In addition, in the 1970s and for much of the 1980s, masters T&F in the US was practiced almost exclusively by men.
You could go to a local masters meet and count the number of women on the little finger of either hand, as there would be only one woman, as in 1. How can we fail to hit 1400 with all the wonderful women who are now in our meets? Why are we not expecting 1700 in Grand Rapids?
In 2015, the overwhelming majority of US masters athletes did not go to Lyon worlds, and I’m predicting that the percentage going to Perth will be even smaller. I agree with you, Easter, about the lack of tourist attractions, and Grand Rapids has a mid-level airport, not nearly in the same league as Detroit or Chicago.
To go over familiar ground still again, if I owned masters T&F as a stock I would sell it. Every year there are reasons cited for the less-than-satisfactory attendance at nationals, and this will be true next year for LSU (Baton Rouge) as well. I announced there in 2001; beautiful facility and just 811 entrants. What? Yes, 811. The beat goes on.
I am taking a group of five athletes to Perth, two of whom have never competed at that level before, while three competed in ABQ in March. Unfortunately we wont be going to Michigan since the costs of going to OZ, even from the West Coast, are very high indeed.
My reason for skipping the meet is that I am not in shape but overall, I believe that a big reason for the lower attendance levels of late is that there are fewer meets [at least in the mid south area]. When I started competing in Masters track about 20 years ago, there were several good masters meets within driving distance of Memphis but they have all disappeared. I don’t know if it is the same in the rest of the country but it is hard to generate interest in masters track if meets are hard to find. Distance running does well here because there is at least one road race every week so you can compete any time that you want.
Good point Michael Walker. I live near Pittsburgh PA and pretty much have to travel 4hrs to compete. Really wish there were more local events. Very hard to stay interested in competing with very few events to prepare for nationals.
Peter L. Taylor, could the drop-off in participation have to do with demographics? Baby boomers (roughly 1946-55) are starting to enter their late 60s and 70s. Mortality and its friends illness and injury have a way of catching up to people in that age cohort, not to mention obesity (an American specialty).
I have started running more road races and trail races than track and field. Why? I can run every weekend with road and trail races. They are held early in the day and my entire weekend is not taken up by travel time or all day meets. Last year, I participated in three outdoor track meets. They were all poorly organized and the officiating was poor in a lot of individual cases.
Very frustrating to be ready for a field event and have to wait two hours after the posted start time to begin the event. Then during the event have it delayed another hour to wait on a “star” to finish another event so they could take their preliminary jumps. I finally got up and went home. A whole day shot for four jumps. This seems to be a recent trend. I can remember in the not so distance past (4 years) that meets were well organized and officials were professional and not bias. I will say that the two National Championships outdoor and indoor held in Winston Salem, NC were two of the best run meets that I have attended and no I am not associated with any group that were involved with these meets. At age 67, I am not interested in running any more track meets giving the current state of Masters Track and Field.
I wonder, do USA athletes get bumped to slower heats when Canadian athletes with faster seed times enter the USA national championship? Should this happen?
Small note: Last year (Jacksonville), my notes show that we had 160 entrants in the 400 at 5:00 in the morning on the day after regular entry closed. We had 152 entries in the 400 at 10:00 PM Eastern today, June 16 (regular entry closes tonight at 11:59 PM).
I believe that the 400 dash is a pretty good proxy for total turnout, and thus I will say that we are in a virtual dead heat with Jacksonville. Because I was not impressed with Jacksonville’s turnout, I will conclude that Grand Rapids’ turnout is disappointing, well below what I expected.
JES: I think you’re on to something, but I will put a different slant on things. The running boom seems to have started in the late 1960s, but it took quite a while for masters track to take off. The first masters nationals with big attendance was in 1989.
I believe that the cohort of masters tracksters who were part of that first big meet has, to a substantial extent, grown tired of masters T&F. “We did it,” they might say, but “do we have to keep on doing it?” In brief, the appeal of “this great new thing” has worn out for this group, and I’ll bet that very few who attended 1989 nationals will be in Grand Rapids.
We need additional troops, but we can’t get them to any large degree. Anyone want to spend $95.00 to enter two events and kick up hundreds (or even thousands) for airfare, hotel, and food? Not too many, apparently.
Unfortunately, masters doesn’t have the special appeal of the Senior Games, where thousands of competitors qualify first and then get to represent their state, a feeling that confers great pride among participants, or so I’ve heard.
I will now revise my prediction for Grand Rapids down to 1110, a very ordinary figure at best, especially in a year WITHOUT the Senior Games. Next year, with the Senior Games in Birmingham, Alabama, our Baton Rouge nationals will suffer terribly.
To Don B, and anyone else who would like to respond, if you could contact me in regards to your statement that you have no interest in running any more track meets giving the current state of Masters track and field. As Vice Chair, I am very concerned and interested in speaking with anyone who has any ideas and suggestion on how we can improve your experiences in Masters track and field. We have great officials and athletes across all ages and events, but there is always room for improvement. I can be reached at rjttrack@hotmail.com
Thank you
I was talking to my wife today about how the Senior Games are more athlete friendly than most USATF Masters meets. The Senior games always have shirts, goodie bags, and snacks. Seems like a little thing, but it is nice to have. I would say that the USATF meets have better competition, but the Senior Games are more fun.
The Senior Games are run like a road race in that everyone gets something, maybe just a goodie bag and a shirt, but you feel valued. In most USATF meets only the top 3 get anything. If you want more people to participate make them feel welcomed and valued.
I think Robert Thomas was on the right track with the free USA kit for Lyon and the USA Lyon Masters shirts.
Going to the USATF Nationals is a big thing, but once I got there I did not feel that welcomed. Even when I got a medal, nothing. You are a newly minted National medal winner, but you barely get a congratulations. When I got second in the 800 in 2011, instead of being a high water mark for the year, it was one of my worse memories because of how un-special it felt.
We had ceremonies for all track events at the Senior Games. Plus, the Senior Games make you feel like you are cool for just being at the Nationals. I use my very high quality 2015 National Senior Games bag almost daily. I probably like it, because it was just something they gave us and it was useful.
I get constant news letters from the National Senior Games and infrequent updates about the USATF Masters champs.
If the Nationals are going to matter, treat it like it is something special and treat everyone there like they matter. Make winning matter by honoring the medal winners. Make people feel welcome by doing the little things like giving them something like a tee shirt and a goodie bag. At least greet people with an enthusiastic welcome.
Terry Parks, the goodie bag at Jacksonville last year consisted of your number, 4 safety pins, and a one-page “guide to Jacksonville” that looked like the paper placemats used at diners. I have never run Senior Games Nat’ls, but the one state meet I did attend offered a polo shirt, a water bottle, and a twenty-odd page program to the Games (with plenty of advertising that probably paid for the contents of the bag). USATF can’t do something like that?
At Jacksonville, you had to go through a tunnel into the bowels of the stadium to find a cramped little room to pick up medals and ribbons. Would it really be that difficult to hold a quick awards ceremony, or at least pause to announce the medalists, at the conclusion of each event? The meet runs 4 days and we can’t carve out a few minutes for this?
All, I think one way to improve upon the Nationals experience is too involve more USATF Masters Committee members & leaders in the planning and execution of the meets. Right now the host city along with LOC(Local Organizing Committee) is solely responsible for the meet with little input from USATF. The meet is only as good as the LOC. USATF Masters should be involved in all aspects of assisting the LOC. LOC’s need guidance, prodding, direction, and advice. What can we expect from an LOC that may have never hosted a meet before? Of course, this might involve tweaking our bylaws a bit. Thoughts?
Mike Travers
USATF-New England Masters T&F Chair
I participated in the 2013 Senior Games in Berea Ohio (Cleveland) in 2013. I wasn’t happy with my times after winning the M50 400 and taking 3rd in the 200 but the very nice medal ceremonies took some of the sting out of it.It seemed like you were special “just because”. I won’t be at Nationals in Grand Rapids-battling Piriformis Syndrome which also took me out of Jacksonville last year.
FYI there is something new listed on the USTAF site under National Championships for Masters-the USA Masters Games in Greensboro NC. The meet runs from July 28-31st at North Carolina AT&T on a Mondo track. Sounds like a new version of the Senior Games as they offer 24 sports.
Forgot to mention in my previous post the USATF competition is definitely better. I got the impression that many of of the Senor Games athletes just started practicing a few weeks before the meet.
I found that comparing the finishing times in the 100M and 200M at the Senior Games to the USATF Masters championships when held in the same year, the Senior Games had both the best and worst times. In other words, far more people seem to do the Senior Games both at the top and low ends.
Yes, I take it seriously and train hard and want to do my best, but honestly, I am just grateful for the opportunity to compete at the sport’s highest level at my age. As we all know half the battle is getting to the starting line.
In order to encourage newcomers and average athletes to enter, please guarantee ribbons for fourth through sixth place at all National Masters Track and Field Championships. The costs for ribbons and award ceremonies are very minimal compared to the potential for additional entrants.
The biggest problem I have with the Masters nationals is that people who are faster than me keep showing up and beating me. Perhaps this will end when I reach M100. :/
Bill, I feel your pain. But we serve an important role — helping the folks who beat us feel better about themselves, thus encouraging them to stay in the game.
Re; Canadians at GR
Americans at our Nationals in Toronto in August are treated as any other competitor.
I feel your pain Bill. I am glad that I have more than one event because the 400 is pretty loaded this year. My best Nationals memory was the 400 in 2014. I didn’t win the 400 in 2014, but the last 100 sure was fun.
To clarify the comment from Doug Smith (Ontario Masters Athletics President): Any foreign citizens placing in the top 3 at our Canadian championships receive a duplicate (same) medal as a Canadian who places. We welcome any competitors from wherever, as it makes us all better and we share a love for our sport that transcends borders. I run for myself. My Canadian government is not sponsoring or sending me. I participate in US meets when I can, because of the friendships and competition, and have been welcomed by US officials/friends/competitors at the US meets. I’m always respectful of the US Champions, however, and will share the podium if I place and am invited, but also give them full respect as US Champions. Results have sometimes listed only the US Champions, with an asterisk for me as a foreign competitor, and US Champions received a special patch for further recognition, as it should be. One exception to the welcome from officials – the first time I won at a US meet ahead of the great competitor Jacqueline Board, an official told me to wait at the side until the podium presentation was done for the Americans. Jacquie noticed and hauled me up on the podium and hugged me while we both got golds. Loved her for that!
We invite any Americans or competitors from other countries to join us in Toronto for the Ontario Championships at the end of July and the Canadian Championships (at the PanAm Stadium) in mid-August. http://www.ontariomasters.ca
In response to Mike Travers’ comments (#15): We also have issues in Canada getting cities other than Toronto to host our championships, whether for Ontario or Canada. Brian Keaveney, from CMA, works closely with the LOC to encourage, support, direct, train, whatever is necessary to help produce a meet. It’s still a difficult sell to get a smaller or less central city, with fewer officials and a smaller base of athletes and volunteers, to put on a meet. We keep trying, so that we can share our sport across Canada! This discussion of how to promote masters track will benefit all of us.
@ #17 I guess that depends on how you measure competition. NSG does seem to attract a lot more people to it’s meets, many of whom have not nor will they ever complete on a regular basis. Good for them to be out trying something new at their (our) age! Maybe some of them will find a new passion in the process.
To get one (and admittedly a very limited) data point I looked at the third place M60 results for the 2105 NSG and USATF National Championships.
NSG has a shorter event list (no hurdles, etc) but for the 13 events in common NSG had a better 3rd place performance in 8, USATF in 4 (one tie)
Why M60? Because I’m M60. Why 3rd place? Because it seems to me that this is where the competition is. Throw out the all-world stud that everybody knows is going to win and look at folks battling for medals.
Conclusions? Who knows. Competition at the top level seems to be at least as good at NSG and maybe better. Folks at the lower end of the results are typicaly competing against themselves so the marketing of NSG and their goodie bags may be a bigger draw.
No disrespect intended to the folks at the bottom. As Muhammad Ali said:
Now the things that once were so effortless – my strong voice and the quickness of my movements – are more difficult. But I get up every day and try to live life to the fullest because each day is a gift from God.
I have only competed in one NSG track event (because it was within a 4 hour drive.) At the time some high caliber competitors were there. (Phil Raschker being one.)
I noticed in the past few NSG and USATF Masters Nationals that many folks compete in both. Sure, NSG attracts more – probably because state level qualifying makes it “special” by earning a spot and there are qualifying events in every state. (A larger pool) So, even if last in an event, one still feels “special” just to be there. I don’t think it is the “goodie” bags per se (and, yes, one can come home with a sackful of stuff.)
I probably will go to the Birmingham NSG (if I qualify) mainly because I have encouraged a younger (50s) person to try track and she plans to go should she also qualify. Not sure about going to Baton Rouge.
But, again, it has nothing to do with ceremonies or goodie bags. I like the competition and socializing (and competing) with my competitors.
However, I will say that the only reason I went to my first USATF Masters Nationals was because it was in state (NC) and I thought why not. I enjoyed it enough to go to the next one.
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