Detailed, hourly sked for Grand Rapids nationals due June 30

At the 2008 convention in Reno, Nevada, the USATF Masters T&F Committee adopted a set of timelines for masters nationals, including: “14 Days prior to first day of competition, Detail Schedule Available.” Since Grand Rapids nationals start July 14, that means we can expect hourly (or even by minute) event schedules posted by June 30. But the nationals website says: “The final time schedule for each day will be set following the close of entries on June 16.” Almost a week later, we’ve seen no change in the tentative sked. June 30 is a drop-dead deadline, but many would appreciate knowing detailed schedule sooner. But don’t count on it from an LOC that posted this about outdoor nationals: “Track events will range from 60 meters to 3,000 meters.”

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June 21, 2016

19 Responses

  1. tb - June 23, 2016

    Picked up about 18 more entrants today to bring us up to 952. We’ll need some last-minute shoppers tomorrow to break 1000.

  2. David E. Ortman (M63), Seattle, WA - June 23, 2016

    Perhaps Masters USATF and the LOC could take a short visit to Vancouver, B.C.

    They are hosting Americas Masters Games (24 different sports!). The track and field meet begins August 27, two months away. Close of registration is July 29, a month away. Despite this, Americas Masters Game has posted a DETAILED preliminary track and field schedule (dated April 2016) for each day with specific event starting times for men and women. True, the age group order isn’t posted and there is a warning, that “A detailed schedule by time will be posted and updated periodically as entries are received. A final detailed schedule will be posted following the close of entries.”

    http://www.americasmastersgames2016.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Athletics-Schedule.pdf

    But at least you now have a clue that on Aug. 28, the younger long jump Men’s age groups at 9:00 AM are a likely conflict with the short hurdle finals at 9:45 AM; and on Aug. 29, that the Men’s Triple Jump at 10:00 AM is a likely conflict with the 100m finals at 10:30 AM, and can plan accordingly. You also know the likely starting event time each day, whether events will start in the morning or afternoon, and the likely starting time of the last event each day. And all two months before the meet and a month before close of entries.

    As of June 23, NONE of this information is available for the schedule of the USATF National Masters Meet beginning July 14 in Grand Rapids (which still has on its main webpage that the championships cover track events from 60m to 3000m – unbelievable and embarrassing). No one knows when the events start each day, or whether they are in the morning or afternoon, or when the last event of the day starts.

    Oh, Canada. Send us your programming.

  3. Peter L. Taylor - June 24, 2016

    Thanks for posting that, tb. As a matter of fact, I was going to ask you for an updated number, and you posted one. In two words, the late-in-the game total of 952 entrants is absolutely shocking, for two reasons:

    1. In the 200 dash, as of 4 AM on Friday we have 17 entrants in W50 alone, and we have 24 athletes in M50. Yes, we have 41 entrants in the 200 in a 5-year age group! By itself, that would indicate a HUGE meet. Instead, we will have very poor attendance. I did notice that some events, in selected age groups, have very thin numbers.

    2. In the year 2000, after just over three decades of nationals, we finally broke through the 1500 barrier, with a total of 1503 entrants. To fail to break 1000 16 years later seems catastrophically bad. What could be the reason(s)?

    David Ortman, I just checked; the longest event, per the event homepage, is the 3000 meters. A detailed schedule has not been developed, but I’m sure we will have one in a few days. Oh, well. I have a personal interest in this, as I would like to know the starting times before I take off for Grand Rapids.

  4. Mary Harada - June 24, 2016

    There is a tentative hourly schedule posted for the Canadian Masters Championship in Toronto August 12-14. 2016.
    Others manage to do this – what is wrong with USATF National Masters Championship that they think it is ok to fiddle with this for months?

  5. tb - June 24, 2016

    1000 exactly at the deadline. Doing 2505 events.

    That’s before the remaining mail-in entries arrive and get processed.

  6. David E. Ortman (M63), Seattle, WA - June 25, 2016

    On June 24th, USATF emailed out a USA Track and Field News update on the National Masters Grand Rapids Meet announcing “A strict late-registration period has been extended until Friday, June 24, 2016 at 11:59pm EST.”

    But it also says, “Track events will range from 100 meters to 10,000 meters.” Apparently, they have forgotten that older M/W age groups run 80m Hurdles – on the track. Oh, well.

  7. Peter L. Taylor - June 26, 2016

    Thank you for post no. 5, tb, and for post no. 6, David Ortman. With the deadline now long past, the absolutely critical word becomes “strict.” Normally, a strict deadline means that any entries received even 1 minute late are returned unopened to the sender, does it not? Will that be the case here?

    If the deadline is not strict, it looks like we might even get 1040 entries or more (a wild guess, admittedly). If it’s strict we will end up with exactly 1000.

    For perspective, I went back to the August 1995 issue of National Masters News, which covered the last time our nationals took place in Michigan (East Lansing, to be precise). To quote that issue (page 1): Of the total 1259 competitors who appeared in the program……”

    To make it easy on myself and to get a useful proxy for our current meet, I counted the number of people in the 100 dash at 11:00 AM ET on Sunday, June 26 (today). Right now we’re at 217. If that number doesn’t budge, I will know that strictness is the watchword of the day. If it jumps, I say we have an outside chance at reaching 1045 or even 1050 overall.

  8. Mke Travers - June 29, 2016

    Any specific event starting times announced before all entries are in is simply wishful thinking You can come up with all the best estimates, but it will all be subject to number of entries. All this hand wringing about start times is a waste of time. Even Vancouver admits to a “detailed” schedule after close of entries. Any meet that claims to have a time specific meet schedule months ahead of time should be viewed with some healthy skepticism.

    Mike Travers

  9. Peter L. Taylor - June 30, 2016

    Final number (as of 7:00 AM today, June 30) appears to be 1017. That is a very low number for a meet like this, but what can you do? The reasons for describing the entries as “very low” are as follows:

    1. We did far better in 1995, the last time the nationals were in Michigan. In that meet we had 1259 entrants. Given the large growth in the US population, the many positive developments in the US masters program, etc., it’s hard to believe that the number of entrants dropped 19%.

    2. As of 2014, I think it was, Michigan ranked no. 10 among US states in population. Four nearby states are also populous, including Illinois (no. 5), Pennsylvania (6), Ohio (7), and Indiana (16), and their locations allow most or all of their residents to drive to the meet without undue effort rather than flying.

    3. The worlds in Perth are a “long way away” in both senses of that expression. Based on our experience with the Lyon worlds last year, the great majority of active masters will not be going to Australia. Opening ceremonies are October 25, allowing masters with good bank accounts to attend both Grand Rapids and Perth.

    4. In general, Grand Valley State University has a nice facility.

    In my opinion, the low turnout can be explained in part by four factors:

    A. Cost of flying into Grand Rapids and perhaps suboptimal routes from many cities.
    B. High cost of entry plus travel and lodging.
    C. Possibility that any one participant could be tested for drugs, even drugs prescribed by one’s physician.
    D. A growing feeling among masters that our nationals “are not all that” in terms of the feelings they generate among participants.

    If any readers have other explanations for the low turnout I would be interested in hearing them. On the good side, I think it will be a very nice meet.

  10. tb - June 30, 2016

    E. The economy

  11. Mke Travers - June 30, 2016

    I have seen this track facility and it is 1st class. Hotels are extremely affordable. After endless kvetching about hot weather in the southern state meets (JAX), the meet is finally in a temperate northern clime. And hundreds of masters stay away? Shameful.

    Entries too expensive, Peter? Check the Vancouver meets entry fees. Looks like >$200. Not to mention fees for families!

    I believe the main reason is competition from other meets. There’s Vancouver, Greensboro, Perth, etc. These meets are siphoning off dozens of athletes. tb might be right about the economy, too.

    I’m looking forward to the reports from Vancouver and Greensboro. These meets are not as easy to put on as some might think….

  12. Myrle Mensey - July 1, 2016

    Where’s the schedule? I thought you mentioned something about 14 days. Well today is 13 days from the start and no tentative hourly detailed schedule. Just asking, I know you are not responsible for it.

  13. Ken Stone - July 1, 2016

    I wrote Gary Snyder of the Games Committee early this morning, July 1.

    Still no updated sked as of 10:15 am Pacific:
    http://www.usatf.org/Events—Calendar/2016/USATF-Masters-Outdoor-Championships/Schedule.aspx

  14. David E. Ortman (M63), Seattle, WA - July 1, 2016

    And the USATF Grand Rapids webpage still announces for the outdoor masters championship:

    “Track events will range from 60 meters to 3,000 meters.”
    http://www.usatf.org/Events—Calendar/2016/USATF-Masters-Outdoor-Championships.aspx

    This is beyond embarrassing for our sport.

  15. Matt McCubbins - July 2, 2016

    Looks like most schedules are now posted as .pdf files under “Start Lists”, but Saturday’s Field Events just links to the the USATF Home Page.

    Anyone know who to alert about this issue?

  16. Peter L. Taylor - July 2, 2016

    Amazing catch, Matt, in both senses of the term. We don’t have an up-to-date schedule, but if we go to “start lists” we can now get a good portion of the schedule.

    Exceptions are “combined events” on Thursday and “field events” on Saturday. You should e-mail Matt Weingardt at USATF and cc Susan Hazzard, also at USATF.

    matthew.weingardt@usatf.org
    susan.hazzard@usatf.org

    One or both should be in Eugene today, but I think they can straighten this out for you and the other entrants in the Grand Rapids champs.

  17. Matt McCubbins - July 2, 2016

    Ah, thank you Pete! I just emailed Matt and Susan to alert them to this link problem. I’m sure they are already getting slammed with complaints, so I tried to be as cordial as possible :-).

    I’m looking forward to seeing (and hearing) you in GR!

  18. Peter L. Taylor - July 2, 2016

    Thanks, Matt. Looks like you have an excellent chance to go gold in your high jump. As you know, the predicted highs for the meet are 79, 83, 83, and 82, and thus you should be comfortable.

    Speaking of the schedule, if they made me king I would change a couple of things:

    (1) One of the 10,000 runs on Saturday will combine M30, M35, M40, M45, M50, and M55; the field lists 28 runners. When they make me king I find some way to knock this down, as 28 feels like a road race on the track.

    (2) The M45 400 will be smoking hot, as you know. Top seed is the sensational Allen Woodard (49.12), with world champ Lee Bridges, the fleet Karnell Vickers, and others also in the hunt. The bottom seed shows 1:30.15, but I’m not sure he’ll be able to duplicate that in Grand Rapids.

    When they appoint me king I will make this a split final on time, the 7 guys who can fly in the second section, and the 7 gentlemen who are somewhat slower in the first section. Of course, I would have decided on split finals for all age groups at least 3 months ago. Why do we need trials?

  19. Mike S. - July 2, 2016

    So I took Saturdays file and just changed the word track to field and it gave me the Saturday field events for those looking.

    http://www.usatf.org/Events—Calendar/2016/USATF-Masters-Outdoor-Championships/Start-Lists/16usoc-field-saturday.aspx

    I tried every combination I could think of to find Thursdays combined events schedule but wasn’t able to find it.

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