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Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:11 pm

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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Bentonville, AR

I'm looking for training tips from Masters Jumpers (Long, Triple, and High Jumps). What type of weight training, sprint training, pit training? Frequency of training? Diet and rational supplementation.

I'm hoping to compete in the 50+ division next year and would appreciate any advise you guys could offer.

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Bill Lillard



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Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:37 am

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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Bentonville, AR

THANK YOU Adarian, The links and info you have provided will keep me busy researching for a while. I train with my teenage daugter, who is more of a natural 400 meter runner. This of course involves sprints of greater than 150 Meters. I'm hoping to tailor a training program that we can both use that will help us both, but the emphasis will be on her training. I figure I have maybe one year left before she seeks out a real coach. At that time, I can concentrate on my own specific training.

Some of your tips reinforce my own opinions (and research), but they mean more to me coming from a Masters Athlete that has "been there and done that". Like anyone else, I want to feel like I'm getting the most out of my training.

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Bill Lillard



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Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:40 pm

 
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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:43 pm
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Location: Bentonville, AR

Given your points, much of my sprint/speed training can overlap with my daughters 400 meter training afterall.

That is good news for me! To tell you the truth, she is progressing at a faster rate than I am in the 400 meters. She has youth and more natural speed endurance than I have ever had. She's only fifteen now, 6 months down the road I'm afraid I won't be strong enough as a training partner to keep pushing her to her limits. Also, at my size (6'4", 220 pounds) I am pretty wiped out after 3 x 600M at 95% effort.

I can still smoke her in a 60 Meter dash. At 200M I have a slight edge. At 400M, she has the legs to pull away from me in the last 50M.

From your last post, I assume it would not be selling her short to go ahead and refocus her training more on acceleration and top cruise speed.

FYI - I have noticed that my recovery period is faster than hers after short sprints at 100%, while her recovery seems faster than mine at longer sprints (300 to 600M). Is this also an indication that she needs more focus on the shorter sprints?

Another FYI - We do full body strength training (legs, arms, core) 2 to 3 times per week. Sets are somewhat high intensity, quick count, 12 to 15 rep. I think this falls in line with your recommendations.

Thanks again for taking time to share your knowledge. I happen to know there are many other Masters that train with a son, daughter, wife, or with other Masters in age groups other than their own. It's nice to have a training partner to help motivate you, but at the same time, you don't want to hold your partner back from reaching his/her potential. It can be a real balancing act.

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Bill Lillard



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Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:40 am

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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:24 am
Posts: 18

Bill Lillard wrote:
I'm looking for training tips from Masters Jumpers (Long, Triple, and High Jumps). What type of weight training, sprint training, pit training? Frequency of training? Diet and rational supplementation.

I'm hoping to compete in the 50+ division next year and would appreciate any advise you guys could offer.


Currently working out 5 times a week. Three times weights, two times jumping/plyometrics.

Weights examples at present times (not all in one session):

Full squat: 100kg/4x4
Half squat: 150kg/4x4
Deadlift: 100kg/4x4
One legged-Calf raises: 50kg/4x5
Barbell Lunge: 50kg/4x8
Half squat-jump: 50kg/4x5
Leg curls: 145lbs/4x4
Abdominal crunches (straight legs, straight arms): 5x8

Jumps: about 20 per session

Plyometrics about 20 minutes per session once or twice a week.

This is a workout for somebody reasonably healthy and in good shape. Obviously you do not want to do this if you are a beginner or have not worked out for a long time.

Milan Jamrich
M50 High Jump-straddle
(currently170-175cm in practice)



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Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:43 am

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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:24 am
Posts: 18

jamrich wrote:
Bill Lillard wrote:
I'm looking for training tips from Masters Jumpers (Long, Triple, and High Jumps). What type of weight training, sprint training, pit training? Frequency of training? Diet and rational supplementation.

I'm hoping to compete in the 50+ division next year and would appreciate any advise you guys could offer.


Currently working out 5 times a week. Three times weights, two times jumping/plyometrics.

Weights examples at present times (not all in one session):

Full squat: 100kg/4x4
Half squat: 150kg/4x4
Deadlift: 100kg/4x4
One legged-Calf raises: 50kg/4x5
Barbell Lunge: 50kg/4x8
Half squat-jump: 50kg/4x5
Leg curls: 145lbs/4x4
Abdominal crunches (straight legs, straight arms): 5x8

Jumps: about 20 per session

Plyometrics about 20 minutes per session once or twice a week.

This is a workout for somebody reasonably healthy and in good shape. Obviously you do not want to do this if you are a beginner or have not worked out for a long time.

Milan Jamrich
M50 High Jump-straddle
(currently170-175cm in practice)



ADDITION:

no supplements, 1 Aleve a day, trying to avoid sugar and too much fat (not very succesfull at it; therefore overweight; 5'10'; 180lbs)



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Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:17 am

 
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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:24 am
Posts: 18

Actually M56 not M50. Milan



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Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:47 pm

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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:44 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Overland Park, Kansas

Because of my technical background, I chose to research the subject in detail to find satisfactory answers. Result of this research was the development of TFPredictions Track and Field software.

This software provides Weight Training for Track and Field events such as Sprinting, Running, Jumping, and Throwing. Software provides Power Weight Training (fast twitch muscles) as opposed to Strength Weight Training with specific levels, iterations, and target iteration times.

Weight levels, distances, and iteration times, for specified exercises, accurately simulate individual body accelerations, velocities, and forces actions experienced for the selected event. Specified exercises can be performed at most Gyms such as the YMCA.

I have used this weight training for 5 years specifically for sprinting and triple jumping. A description of TFPredictions software is available at www.jasnook.com



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Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:05 am

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
Posts: 202
Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

Also 5 workouts a week, two jump sessions just like Milan. Two times fitness/weights and one time just what I like, javelin this year mostly. When I have time some extra workouts with sprints, hurdling, throws, even longer distances (up to 3km, rarely). The weights are very very much lower than Milan's... Of course! (Although in the sitting leg press machine I use the maximum weight, they say it is 195kg. Knees bent 50 degrees, 3x8 slow or 3x20 fast and short.) I do quite much core stability too.

In the jumps my favourite exercises are series of step-step-jump-step-step-jump etcetera (that is using both legs) and step-jump-step-jump etcetera (for the rhythm of the last two strides of a real jump) and step-step-step-step-jump-step-step-step-jump etcetera (for maximal height). The number of jumps goes up to 3x12 or so, but when I feel coordination becomes less I immediately stop the series. (Never do high quality jumps with tired legs, otherwise your system learns the wrong coordination.)

A real high jump training contains ever more jumps, the maximum being about 8x5 jumps with full approach. Two weeks before the important meets this goes abruptly to 8 jumps with long rest, which leads to good supercompensation.

And I plan three peak periods a year. February for indoors, june for our nationals, and end of august/begin september for an exra peak or an international championship.

Weia Reinboud (Netherlands, W56, high jump, tall 1.84m, weight 60kg or a trifle below, this year 1.50m)

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Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:42 am

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
Posts: 202
Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

By the way, my sketch gives the ideal situation. As the workouts build up gradually injuries lead to not reaching the goal. So august this year I could do 7x4 jumps at most and then had to go for the supercompensation (leading to a near miss at 1.51 at september 16, and then the season was over unfortunately).

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Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:10 pm

 
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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:24 am
Posts: 18

"A real high jump training contains ever more jumps, the maximum being about 8x5 jumps with full approach. Two weeks before the important meets this goes abruptly to 8 jumps with long rest, which leads to good supercompensation"

Hi Weia,
what does 8x5 jumps mean?
5 jumps at each hight?
How high do you jump in practice? Do you go for a maximum in practice?
How many sprints do you do?
Do you do 'frog leaps" or timed speed squots?
Any stars/ running or jumping?
Any stepups with weight?

Milan



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Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:25 pm

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
Posts: 202
Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

Quote:
what does 8x5 jumps mean?

I wasn't clear. Jumps like in a meet, I do five of them and someone else jumping in between, so quite fast after each other. After five I take a rest of say 3 minutes.

Quote:
How high do you jump in practice? Do you go for a maximum in practice?

I find it difficult to jump maximal in practice. I try to do so, but as the focus is on technical aspects it happens that they are lower than in a meet, between 5-10cm. To press myself to come closer to maximal I sometimes jump with the bar and after each clean clearing I raise the bar 1cm. Mostly the training is over at around 5 cm below meet results.

Quote:
How many sprints do you do?

Too few... Last two years knee problems prevented me from doing much sprints, so hardly nothing. Normally it would be 3 series of 80-60-40m or the reverse., things like that.

Quote:
Do you do 'frog leaps" or timed speed squots?

No. I concentrate on quality jumps with little knee bending. Frogs are too deep and I have the feeling there is not really much transfer to the real jump. Maybe I'm wrong.

Quote:
Any stars/ running or jumping?

What is that?

Quote:
Any stepups with weight?

I have done that but my legs seem to strong for my upper body. I find step ups with 50kg or more very uncomfortable as I am 60kg myself. I did 3x20 steps with both legs (which means 3x40).

And what do you do Milan (and others)?

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regards, Weia



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Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:33 am

 
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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:24 am
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"Any stars/ running or jumping?"

"What is that?"

Sorry, spelling error!

Stairs, running up or jumping?

Milan



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Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:50 am

 
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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:24 am
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"I have done that but my legs seem to strong for my upper body. I find step ups with 50kg or more very uncomfortable as I am 60kg myself. I did 3x20 steps with both legs (which means 3x40)"

Actually, you are bringing up a probelm people are rarely talking about.
People say dont do full squats, you do not need it for high jump. Halfsquats are enough. Well, my legs are fairly strong, I am currently at 180 kg in halfsquats , soon heading over 200kg. While it is not too difficult for my legs, it is psychologically very demanding and my back suffers. So I do full squats. Deadlift is an option, but again, my back is lagging behind so I mostly excercise my back and not my legs. You seem to have the same problem with stepups.
I find that lower weight and repeats more than 6 do not build my strength as efficiently as higher weights and low repeats. Unfortunately, the weights quickly get scary and I do not like machines. I like free weights.



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Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:20 am

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
Posts: 202
Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

I don't like machines too, free weights are much better. But in this case... Half squats would mean 90kg or more for me, indeed bad for my back, awful, step ups are too heavy already I think. Full squats would give lighter weights but less transfer to the high jump too. Here is a serious problem and I take the machine as best of many worse things.

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Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:43 pm

 
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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:14 pm
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Location: Bakersfield, CA

When I jumped in college, I used heavy free weights to strengthen my legs. Since my lower back was fused about 12 years ago, I can't put heavy weight on my shoulders. When I tried to use machines to strengthen my legs (to save my back), my hamstrings became weak - while my quads got strong. The machine leg presses had given me a muscle imbalance and I had some hamstring pulls for the first time in my life. Free weights make all of the muscles, ligaments, and tendons of your legs and knees synergistically balance the weight as you move up and down. So, I went back to using free weights - but used lighter weights and had great results.

I do lots of single leg strength training because it more closely simulates the actual single leg jumping actions during the vertical and horizontal jumps. After all, we jump off one leg at a time. You don't have to use heavier weights which might compromise the back. Two of the single leg exercises I do are:

One leg squats. After putting the bar on my shoulders, I step forward ~ 24-30 inches from my bench with one foot - and put the other foot back on top of the bench for balance. I go up and down in the typical two leg squat motion. Start out very light (maybe only using the bar) because it is hard to balance - until you get used to doing this lift. Make sure that your knee is not going past your toes when you are going down - so you don't strain the patellar tendon below your knee.

One leg vertical jumps - Step forward with one foot - put the ball of the other foot back on top of the bench. Lower yourself down and explode upward (I use a double arm action). You land on that same foot and immediately explode back up again. I do 10 jumps in one set. Again, make sure that your knee is not going out past you toes as you descend on each jump.

Since all the muscles, ligaments, and tendons are more engaged (than in the two-legged squat, leg presses, etc.) in single leg movements, your legs become sore in areas that wouldn't normally get sore. Physical therapists usually work joints independently to engage and strengthen all of the ligaments and tendons that support the joint.

I also do some explosive two leg squats with a lighter weight - using no more than 2/3 of the weight I would use on heavier full squats. I descend slowly and rise rapidly in an explosive manner.

Dave Quick
M51 jumps


Last edited by notre_dave on Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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