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Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:17 pm

 
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Campisi wrote:
(I'm 5'9") . . . I did do a 400m last week at our local All Comers meet in 68 seconds.


On the Height-Graded Tables (which I just invented), a 68-second quarter is worth 48 seconds for a typical 6-4 open sprinter. So you're doing great!

Keep it up!

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Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:50 am

 
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For anyone who wants to improve their mile times, your training must service all the needs the race demands: speed, endurance, race pace, strength, lactate threshold, V02max. You'll only race as fast as your weakest link allows. I'm training so much smarter than when I was in high school and college that I've gone from 5:29 to 4:54 in 1 1/2 years. I just ran 9:39 for 3k with a 5:06 mile split.

It suddenly occurred to me what's different about running the wrong workouts and the age factor. When you're young, your body absorbs it and you think the workout benefited you. When you're old, your body breaks and you get injured.

Every run must have a purpose that supports your goals. Plan them. Increase the physical stress no more than 10% each week. (That's a composite of miles and intensity.) Accept that more is better as long as more is 5-10%.

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Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:23 pm

 
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Last meet of the winter was Saturday.
I ran two races - the 400 and the 1500. The 15 was the event right after the 400 so I didn't really have a lot of time to recover. Anyway, I ran another 68-flat 400 and followed that up with a 5:04 1500. I gotta call 'improvement' on the 400 even though my time was exactly the same as previous 400 BUT I missed the start! I'm sitting there in the blocks relaxed and waiting for the 'SET' command when the gun goes off. I wasn't even up and ready to go. I must have missed the command. That had to have cost me time. The 1500 showed an improvement of 2 seconds from my previous 1500.
So after my last long distance road race in May I'll cut back mileage and really give this thing a go. I'll be coming off some big base having run 60-70 mpw continuously for the last three years. Summer meet is in August.



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Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:52 pm

 
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Campisi,

You need to be doing speed all year - not serious speed, but speed. Stop training in terms of base mileage for months, the speed work. Include speed work every week. Informal in the off-season, formal in-season.

Read Jack Daniels' book. He has specific sections on middle distance. Gradually add his principles and workouts to your weeks and you will see results. I finished the season with a 9:24.5 3000! And I'm 49. Although I've been running for years, it's only been the last 2 years that I've gotten specific about track racing.

I'm now in phase 4 for 1500-3000 training, peaking for an outdoor mile in May. I have a checkpoint race this Saturday, but the weather will be raw. My speed continues to improve and I'm looking forward to the track test!

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Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:25 am

 
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MasterCouper wrote:
Campisi,

You need to be doing speed all year - not serious speed, but speed. Stop training in terms of base mileage for months, the speed work. Include speed work every week. Informal in the off-season, formal in-season.

Read Jack Daniels' book. He has specific sections on middle distance. Gradually add his principles and workouts to your weeks and you will see results. I finished the season with a 9:24.5 3000! And I'm 49. Although I've been running for years, it's only been the last 2 years that I've gotten specific about track racing.

I'm now in phase 4 for 1500-3000 training, peaking for an outdoor mile in May. I have a checkpoint race this Saturday, but the weather will be raw. My speed continues to improve and I'm looking forward to the track test!


Mastercouper - did you run that outdoor mile? How'd you do?

I ran a road mile last Sunday in 5:24. My previous best (track) was a 5:37. The road mile was not a fast course as there were a couple of 90deg turns and one 180deg go-back-the-way you came turn that was right at the end of a 400m uphill segment (did get to run back down that same segment to the finish, though). Certainly not ideal and I think I will do better this summer at the track.
Been doing 200's/600's for a few weeks (at about 42sec per 200). Seem to recover quickly from these sessions and they seem to have helped my speed some. I'll get Daniels' book and see what I can learn from it.



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Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:59 pm

 
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Campisi,

I ran 4:52.54. I had to back off some in the weeks leading to the race because the plantar fascia flared up. Overall I'm pleased with the results and relieved to be going into off season base-building (with occasional strides & hills to maintain leg speed, of course!).

You will find Daniels' book helpful to understand the different systems to train and how to train them. Stay healthy & happy as you train.

Regards, Jim

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Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:46 pm

 
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MasterCouper,

Nice 4:52 mile times for a 49 year old runner. I will not know what a five minute mile feels like for another five years. I think Daniels' book is ok, but not the only way.

Last May, I ran a (3:08.1) 1200 and a (1:57.4) 800 one hour :) apart. We need to think outside of the box here in the US. Campisi is running the 400, 800 and 1500, so that requires more speed endurance not speed.

Most likely his coach used Daniels' book for years. What he is finding out is with all the 60 and 70 miles a week it doesn't help his 400 meters.

That comes from faster track workouts like 120, 150, 250's, and 300's.

Carnegie



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Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:32 pm

 
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Jman wrote:
MasterCouper,

Nice 4:52 mile times for a 49 year old runner. I will not know what a five minute mile feels like for another five years. I think Daniels' book is ok, but not the only way.

Last May, I ran a (3:08.1) 1200 and a (1:57.4) 800 one hour :) apart. We need to think outside of the box here in the US. Campisi is running the 400, 800 and 1500, so that requires more speed endurance not speed.

Most likely his coach used Daniels' book for years. What he is finding out is with all the 60 and 70 miles a week it doesn't help his 400 meters.

That comes from faster track workouts like 120, 150, 250's, and 300's.

Carnegie



That's a fact (though I don't have a coach)!
My 400m ability is lacking, I run it because I'm a newbie and am having fun with it. I've been doing 1500m-geared workouts lately and ran a road mile two weeks ago (Downtown San Rafael) in 5:25.7. My previous best track mile was 5:37 in January. Downtown San Rafael is not a fast mile in that there was a pretty decent hill to climb (though you got to run back down it as well) and a cone-in-the-road 180deg turnaround. We'll see what I can do on the track at that distance. I'm gonna run an 800 at this Thursday's meet and then a track mile (club race) Saturday a week out. I think I might have a shot at sub 5:20. That would be serious improvement - I'm beginning to come around to the notion of how difficult a sub-5, for me, will be.
I apreciate the comments/advice, guys.



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Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:06 am

 
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Sub 5's are impressive for any age yet alone 50+. I don't think I could ever do a sub 5 because of my asthma. I can do moderate paced long distances and I can sprint but that middle ground mixing sprinting and distance is too much for my asthma. I could go a quarter or possibly half a mile but my asthma would kick me down after that.

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Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:39 pm

 
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So I ran the 400 and the 200 tonight (Saturday is a track mile). I ran 67.57 for the 400 and 31.17 for the 200. I'm a little disappointed in my 400 and have no clue how to feel about the 200 as its the first time I ran it. I'm looking for 5:20 or better Saturday.



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Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:33 pm

 
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your 200 and 400 times seem appropriate, by that i mean a 67 for 400 seems reasonable for a 31 second 200. as you continue to train and get your 200 under 30, you should be able to run a 65 or better for 400.

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Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:35 pm

 
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bowleggedlouie wrote:
your 200 and 400 times seem appropriate, by that i mean a 67 for 400 seems reasonable for a 31 second 200. as you continue to train and get your 200 under 30, you should be able to run a 65 or better for 400.


Feel like I need to update this as I posted about hoping to go under 5:20 a week or two ago. No dice. Had two good tries at it on the track. Last Saturday was a 5:25.9 and last night ran 5:25.9. Still off, what I thought was a slow course, road mile time of 5:25.6 from about 4 weeks ago. Hmm, at least there's consistency. Good thing is I'm able to tolerate the training/racing well and have not stressed anything too much. Maybe it's a matter of more speed training time for me. I guess I'll find out!



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Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:13 pm

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Good luck with your quest.
I'm new to the site, but chasing a similar goal (sub 5 at 45) with similar problems (calves strain/tear from very tight hamstrings). I ran 4:11 for 1500 in college. Now 20 years and 30 lbs later hoping 364 days is long enough to snap back into sub 5 shape.

My plan:
- Do everything possible to keep calf from straining.
- short reps (100s/200s) with long recovery at goal pace
- increase rep/decrease recovery as fitness improves.

Keep us updated on your progress!

Cheers.



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Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:11 pm

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I enjoyed reading this discussion.

Please provide any updates.

Briefly, I am a 50 year old distance guy. My best mile was a 4:21 in college at an intramural track meet. The mile was never my race. I ran a 29:32 10K as a junior in college.

I started to get serious again about running two years ago. My goal is to run a sub 18:00 5K in 2012. At this point, my best effort is a 20:28 3-mile. A ways to go, but I am confident that I can achieve my goal once I step up the mileage and the speed work.



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Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:35 pm

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Keep up the good work.



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