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| Training with heavy implements http://masterstrack.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=860 |
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| Author: | phxdoc [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Training with heavy implements |
Anyone have experience they can share regarding training with 3 kg discus? Do you feel it was helpful to you or not so much? I have read Dan John's posts in a variety of places regarding throwing heavy stuff and the benefits it can have ...also Discusdoc has, in the past, commented in general on throwing heavy and light implements. Anyones thoughts and experience is appreciated. |
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| Author: | Discusdoc [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Heavy and light implements |
Years ago, Dr. Yessis published a study done in the old USSR on a discus training method using different size disks. Train with 4 disks: two light (1 or 1.5 kg), one normal (1.5 or 2 kg), and one heavy (2, 2.5, or 3 kg) and throw them in that order. The idea behind the method is that throwing the light disks speeds up the motor patterns and then throwing the heavy disks provides overload. The article claimed that the method triggered rapid improvements. The article was published in the Soviet Sports Review in the 1960s or 70s. In those days, Soviet scientists would try out training methods on entire teams. Try it, it might work. As for heavy disks, I bought a 3 kg discus in 1980 from a guy named Hubbell that has the same dimensions as a 2 kg discus. He is no longer with us, but I think you can buy an overweight discus from track and field supply company. I have been throwing the 3 kg and 2 kg disks a lot lately, but it hasn't helped much (so far). I've also been throwing a 30 lb Atlas stone to build some horsepower in my lower body (my legs are going to sue me for non-support). Thomas Fahey, M60-64 |
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| Author: | phxdoc [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Doc, I'll give those things a try. Always appreciate your posts and the info they contain. |
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| Author: | Hadabetter [ Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Currently a 2kg is an overwight discus for me, as the 1.5kg will be in a few years. I was wondering what kind if differentials in distance can one expect for the same masters thrower when throwing the 2kg, 1.5kg and 1kg implements? |
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| Author: | weia [ Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hadabetter wrote: I was wondering what kind if differentials in distance can one expect for the same masters thrower when throwing the 2kg, 1.5kg and 1kg implements?
Try the square root formula, for me it works in javelin and shot. Multiply with the square root of the weight difference, so a 1.5 should go SQRT(2/1.5) farther than a 2 kg. |
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| Author: | Hadabetter [ Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Based on the embarrassing distances I throw the 2kg, one benefit of throwing the 3kg would be that the walk out to shag it would be a very short one. I'm not sure I could even maintain good form with a 3kg, but I guess I'll try. Since 3kgs are kind of tough to come by, I will be using a 2.27kg and 3.41kg (5lb and 7.5lb weights, roughly discus shaped). |
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| Author: | phxdoc [ Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | training with heavy implements |
just purchased a 3 kg discus for training from MF Athletics. http://www.everythingtrackandfield.com/ ... ryID_E_289 Hope my groin holds together throwing that plate. |
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| Author: | Hadabetter [ Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Based on the square root formula, my 1.5kg throws should go about 15% further than my 2gk throws. I'm seeing a differential of > 20%. The predicted difference between the 1.5kg and the 1.0kg of 22% isn't too far off though. As for the 3kg disc - I'm not going to throw anything that takes me 2 hands to lift! 
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| Author: | weia [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hadabetter wrote: Based on the square root formula, my 1.5kg throws should go about 15% further than my 2gk throws. I'm seeing a differential of > 20%. The predicted difference between the 1.5kg and the 1.0kg of 22% isn't too far off though. As for the 3kg disc - I'm not going to throw anything that takes me 2 hands to lift!
That could mean that are not 'ready' for the 2, Imaginable. |
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| Author: | Hadabetter [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
That's very possible WEIA. And it's a situation I intend to correct during the off season. |
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| Author: | Discusdoc [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 3 kg discus |
Yesterday, I took 10 standing throws with the 3 kg discus. I'm not sure my back will take any full-turn throws with that monster. I also took 12 throws with the 2 kg discus (I throw the 1 kg discus). Klaus Weiffenbach, world record holder in the m50 discus (224-5), said that the key to his success was training very specifically for the lighter implement. However, I think I had better strength in the discus when I trained more with heavier implements. But, Klaus threw very far, so he might be right. I have been taking 5-10 throws with a 33 lb Atlas stone (overhead throws). I found a 60 lb stone in the track shed, which I will try when I build up the courage. I'm not sure any of this stuff works, but it keeps me off the street. I still suck at the shot. |
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| Author: | ChristianSalas [ Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
If you want to save money, another idea for 2.5k discus is to use a kilogram based 2" inside diameter plate, such as this one: http://www.muscledriverusa.com/mdcosewepl2p.html Works well, especially since it's painted red (easier to find), and a pair of plates cost $20.99 (+ around $10-15 shipping!). They also sell cheaper ones in different colors. |
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| Author: | tql [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Lighter implements? |
I used to throw a 5lb plate that worked pretty well when I was an open competitor. Of course I don't really know if that helped my throwing or not-there are too many variables! Jay Silvester in his Throws book mentions that he didn't throw heavy but lighter discuses to develop speed. How much does the discus "weigh" after it has been accelerated in the first part of throw? Is strength speed necessarily? It would be interesting to do a study of this-of course no one wants to be in the control group! |
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| Author: | Hadabetter [ Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've often heard people talking about how the implement weighs less when it's moving. I'm not sure I understand the concept. |
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| Author: | tql [ Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Weigh of an implement |
I was trying to think of an analogy for this-say you are pushing a car. The hardest part is getting it started-once it is rolling it is much easier to maintain or increase the speed . The car still weighs the same Applying this to the discus once you are in the final throwing position you are dealing with an object which weighs the same but is already in motion. I assume that practice with a heavier disk is just from a stand. If that is the case it seems that throwing a lighter discus from a stand would be more like the actually motion of the regular discus after it has some acceleration. I hope exercise physiologists or physicists will chime in-this is only speculation by a layperson! |
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