masterstrack.com

Novice Age 47 400m thread.

This thread is directed at getting input from novices who may be considering moving into competition. (or those who did it) I see a lot of info on this site from advanced viewpoints talking high performance levels at near 50 flat. Considering that is the world record at the 45 or 50 year age level, that type of training advice and war story is way off the charts for this thread.

My short story: Age 18-20. North Dakota track. 51s quarter miler. Age 21-46. lethargic out of shape and getting worse. Age 46 to 46.5 dropped 35 pounds to 150 (I'm 5'9 with a very narrow shoulder frame). Could not run more than 200 meters without significant throat/lung pain, but got up to 3 miles in about 4 months. Age 46.5 to 47. Started doing some hill and interval work. Usually in the 400 meter range. Self timed 400 meters has dropped from 75s to 61s (last month indoors).

Winter in the Dakotas is usually brutal - and even more difficult to run this winter with horrible ice conditions that have not melted for more than 90 days. Indoor workouts on a walking track - and some treadmill interval stuff. My typical "work out" 3 to 4 times a week now is a brisk mile warm up run (about 7-8 minute mile), stretch, intervals of 6 to 8 400 meters (about 2 minutes in between) designed to put me near exauhstion near the end, quick warm down. Total time elapsed (including warm down), about 45 minutes.

I am very weak (and small) upper body. Quite weak in upper legs.

I am consitent, but take very little time for my exercise. I am definitely a novice - primary goal has been weight loss and belly flab loss. I do quick, non-scientific work outs.

And I am excited about my progress. I truly never thought I would ever see 60 flat. But it now seems an almost certainty once I get a nice day on an outdoor track. (My indoor times are relatively accurate - I have had others time me on true 200 meter tracks - hundreds of miles from my home - I find myself near one on business occasionally - used for NCAA universtity meets. But they are nothing but practice times).

Running a 61s or 63s or 65s 400m is painful and fatiguing for me. But hey - that's the quarter mile. A tough gut check race in that final 50-70 meters. I am trying to decide if I should go the next step and try to hit the high 50's. Foot speed, strength and a lengthened stride seem to be the next things I would need to add to have a chance. And then I stumbled upon this Master's Track thing. And I am thinking that planning to attend a Masters Track meet or two with a goal might motivate me to get into and through the next level of training.

Any one out there similar - or who went through this type of transition?

Well Glen, in my opinion (humble as it may be), if you can run a self-timed 61s 400 you can undoubtedly run sub 60 in a meet. No question. Endogenous epinephrine does wonders for performance. For example, last year at the beginning of the season , I ran a "time trial" by myself, spikes and all with so-so result; Two weeks later I ran in an all-comers meet and my time was 3 seconds faster.
As for your training, there is nothing magic. Just go slowly, avoid injury, try to be somewhat consistent and work on increasing strength.

Glen,

I've been competing since HS except for a few years in my early 20's, so I can't say I followed a similar path, but I think you are on the right path. 35 lb. weight loss and going from barely able to jog to running 61 in a workout is impressive. I agree with BMo you could probably break 60 now in a meet. I've seen lots of guys over the years come into Masters with fresh legs and improve dramatically. Just keep up the interval work and I would get in the weight room as sprinting has a great deal to do with power. 2-3 X a week of a good overall workout should do it then when you can start running outdoors add in some hill work and bounding.Keep working and you'll probably surprise yourself this summer.

Glen,

Stick at it. I was a reasonably good sprinter in my 20's and early 30's (sub 11 seconds at 100m, and regularly under 22.7 for 200m), but a bad injury to my back took me out of the sport at the age of 32. I had a go at road running for a few years, and even managed a 1.14 half marathon at my best, but was always disatisfied with the distance stuff, and hated the training. Eventually, at 46, and after a couple of years re-focusing my training via gym and strength work, I decided to see if I could still cut it at a sprinter.

My Club's Masters team let me race third leg of a sprint relay, and it felt really good to be racing fast again. Although I over-did it and pulled a calf and adductor a few weeks later, I was hooked again. The following season, I was regularly running around 12.6 for 100 and 26 seconds for 200. Not earth-shattering, but satisfying after fifteen years absence.

In 2006, I was third in the British M50 60m indoors, a member of the Great Britain 4x200m squad which won silver at the World Indoors, and a finalist over 100m in the European Masters. In 2007, I was part of the British relay squads which won gold in the European Masters Indoors and the World Masters outdoors. I was a finalist in the World Masters Indoors at 200m last year, and part of the 4x200m gold medal team, and a finalist in the European Masters at 100m and 200m.

My recipe is to race regularly during the summer season, and to ensure I get a good indoor track season each winter. I train three or four sessions a week, usually with just one of these being on the track, and mix in a lot of agility work and plyos with weights at the gym. I find having good medical back up (massage, chiro, etc) is vital, and I train mainly on my own. I don't have a coach, but take good advice from anyone!

I am meeting more and more people who have made a late return to the track. It seems to me that (in the UK at least) relatively few Masters have been "at it" since they were kids. Many have come in from completely different sports.

Do it, and let us know how you get on.

Nice stories! I did athletics from my 16th-26th and after a 20 years gap restarted at age 45. Yesterday i read my notitions about the work-outs and saw that only after 7 months I've ran first more or less reasonable time. But the next two months gave unbelievable improvements resulting in 2:38.8 on 800. In the mean time I discovered other loves, the high jump and at my 55th the javelin. In those disciplines I was second/third of the world last year and I would never have thought that something like that was possible. (Of course the number of competitors drop with age, you only have to outlive the really good ones, someone has said.)
The most important thing has already been said: build up slowly.

Thanks for adding to the thread folks.

Those who have seen improvement - please weigh in. I have avoided upper body work outs, primarily becasue I am lazy. If I have the time to do anything, I guess I have liked the visible results of running and interval work (albeit in short, 45 minutes work outs). Any opinions if I will get much bang for the buck by doing some upper body stuff? I am thinking toning and maybe a small amount of addiitional muscle mass upstairs.

Also, any suggestions whether speed work (100 meter intervals, 200 meter intervals etc...) will help me bring down my 400 meter time? Any real life experience with that helping - or hurting at a masters age nearing 50?

Finally, despair from the front lines. This winter continues to be ABYSMAL! I have been unable to do an outdoor work out for more than 4 months. And it is not becasue I am a wimp. There just is way too much ice snow and zero degree (or below zero) farenheit weather. I did get a chance to poach a half hour on the University of Nebraska (Lincoln) indoor track while visiting my son (at the university) last week. About 350 miles south of my home. BEAUTIFUL track. 200 meter. Banked. I essentially tresspassed - warmed up quickly and ran a time trial at 400 meters. THen I left quickly before I was thrown out. It was closed for the day. But I only had one day - and I am a winter refugee, so I hope my small quasi-criminal activity is justifiable. I just really needed to run.

61.72. Self timed. so we'll call it in the 62 range. I ran very hard and left virtually nothing in the tank. So, I have regressed a little bit, but holding my own through this cruddy winter. Again, lack of long strides and footspeed seem to be holding me back.

PS. I noticed the facility records posted at the Track (Devaney Center) was 45.something for Jeremy Wariner (sp?) from Feb, 2004 - running for Baylor a few months before winning the Olympics. A stunning indoor time. It really was a treat and inspiration to see that track and run on it. http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml ... LID=623154

I firmly believe that 2 to 3 months before racing, short speed workouts are most important. I do 2 speed workouts per week working my way up over about 1 month to attain a level where I can train at 95 to 100%. By this time (April or May) I am doing quality, full-recovery workouts and running a total of approximately 1,200 meters. I do distances of 100, 200, 300, occasionally 150 and a few time trial 400s. Speed is most important. As they say, you gotta train fast to run fast. My 2 cents.

I am in a similar situation. Ran sub 50s for 400m age 17, then stopped and did nothing for 23 yrs. Started back running about 18mths ago, focussed on getting fit, dropped over 30 pounds to 150 (ht 5' 8 ) ran a few 5-10Ks improving my 5K time from 23.5mins to 19.5mins in the first year.

Now want to try my hand at 400m again. I did a time trial last year in about 70s but think I can do much better. Currently training 3-4 times per week, 3 running & 1 core strength when I can.
Plan is to go from quantity to quality, typical sessions are 12x200m in 32s with 90s recovery and 10x50m hill sprints.

I will do a time trial later this month and see what kind of shape I am in and hopefully then set some targets for this year. Any advice appreciated.

Me too. My best year was my last, when I was 13 yo. I managed a 53.5 440 and a 4:53 mile. Then nothing for 26 yrs, until 2 yrs ago when I caught the bug. Anyway, I found this article helpful: http://www.nacactfca.org/articles/Hart-eng.htm

The keys are to slowly work your way back and above all avoid injury. Oh yeah, and have fun too. Good luck!

To dna_leri:

Wow, what a coincidence. I see you are a first time poster as I was a few posts ago. Can you imagine having that additional 30 pounds on you as you do your 200's?

If you can do 200x12 at 32 seconds with 90 second rests - that seems to be really aggressive. Can you tell me how winded and what kind of gut check it takes to produce 32 seconds on that 9th 10th 11th and 12th interval? Are you digging pretty deep? I would guess the ability to easily go under 60 seconds with that type of ability. Good luck. I am very interested to hear your time trial result, and your description of what kind of effort you put into it.

How long have you been doing those 200's - and do you feel it is sustainable as a workout - long term - without injury?

I am a little concerned about placing my 47 year old body into that final 60 to 70 meter "underwater/the-bear-is-on-myback/I'm gonna die" mode in teh quarter mile. I've done it a few times in time trials now. Any thoughts about the efficacy of doing that at our age? Especially if its just to prove to ourselves that we can reach 65s or 60s (or 55s in some cases)

You and BMo are just a little bit younger than me - but I suspect all 3 of us have very similar age related limitations and injury potential.

I have suffered my first injury. A very slight ligament(?) (anterior) problem on my knee. I don't know my anatomy well. IT stiffins a bit, inflames a bit, and hurts a little and produces a topical pain (like my skin hurts). I stopped running for a week, took very low doses of ibuprofen, and then started back up on a treadmill. A few symptoms persist. When I am warmed up - it does not bother me. I am easing back into workouts. A few treadmill intervals - but I am avoidging any track or pavement impact running. (And here I will complain again - this winter remains UNBELEIVABLE. Below Zero for 3 straight days .. again, another 4 inches of snow. There is no dry pavement or sidewalk within a 200 mile radius of my home.) We are now approaching the 4.5 month duration of this insanity.

I am in Orlando for Business next week - and have a Friday afternoon off. I will seek a track and have my first outdoor time trial since ... a long long time. Assuming my knee is not flaring up a bit.

There is a bit of a coincidence in our posts - that's what made me register and post - also that I might be the 500th user (I was 503rd).

12x200m is tough going, especially as you say from 9th one onwards. I started with 15 reps in 35s in February and will reduce the time and increase the speed as the season progresses, keeping the distance and recovery fixed. Right now I am doing these every 2 weeks and having a full rest day afterwards to aid recovery.

I have access to a track here Mon-Fri 9-5 but that's when I usually work so most of my running is done on grass or trail. Next week I will have some time off and hopefully do a time trial on the track.

No problem with the cold weather here in Ireland - up to 50F and signs of Spring starting

After a week off to heal a bit, did a couple of light workouts - and a few treadmill intervals.

Did time trial today. 60.97 (self timed). So, staying consistent.

To Florida on business next week. hope to find a little warm weather and a track for the first outdoor time trail in months.

Hit my goal of sub 60. 59.97 (timed by someone else) in a time trial. Dr. Phillips HS track, Orando Florida. A little breezy - but 80 beautiful degrees!

On to next goal. Which will be to follow the speed workout advice of posters here. I'll try a few months of that and then do a few time trials.

Spring is hitting the Dakotas. Some dry pavement! 50 degree days (for a few hours). There will be more snow - but should be able to begin outdoor workouts soon.

Please keep any speed workout advice coming my way.

Glen - well done on your time, you obviously can go a lot faster later this year.

Did my own time trial too on Wednesday this week, but did not work out so well. I had a 200m session on Monday and had not fully recovered. On top of that I had a few drinks on Tuesday (St Patricks Day) so I was not in the best shape on Wednesday morning.

To make it worse, when I arrived at the track. the home straight was being used for hurdle practice. While I waited for them to finish I did a 40m & 100m time trial in 5.9s & 12.7s (self-timed), which I was happy enough with. I then did a couple of fast 200's (untimed). Finally when I got to do my 400m, I was past my best and recorded 65.0s.

I was disappointed as I know I can go faster, but I learnt a few lessons about preparation. My target is still to go under 60s for 400m later this year but I have got a bit more work to do especially on my speed endurance.

What speed work-out are you planning to do next?

For speed I intend to do intervals between 100 and 200 meters. I am limited by snow melt on the track near my house (black-top jr. high track). Yesterday was very nice weather - and I had (for the first time since november) about 140 meters of dry track. So, I did 140 meter intervals. Full out 140 meters, walk back X 8. I am working on sustained full speed, smoothness and form.

I will repeat this at 140 or 180 or 200 meters X 8 or X 10 in the future. I plan to do 2 days per week of speed work, One day of distance (3 miles), and one 400 meter time trial per week. Off days will be upper body strength (1) and one day of full rest per week.