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Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:07 pm

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Junior Masters Athlete
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I think it is long past time to get rid of the moronic rule in Hammer and Weight Throw, that says that releasing one hand before the other is an automatic foul. I've talked to several officials over my years of competition about this rule, and the answer always boils down to a Big Brother attitude that "we're trying to protect the throwers from injuries caused by one-handed throwing." Okay. This is garbage. First, it isn't one-handed throwing - it's just one-handed releasing. As in, "the last half-second of the throw." Second, I think that once a person reaches the age of Masters competition, she or he should be considered an adult, who is responsible for her or his own physical well-being. There are numerous ways to hurt oneself in almost ALL events, yet this seems to be the only one that prompted Big Brother to "save us from ourselves." At 6'3" and 250 pounds, I am perfectly capable of throwing even the weight (let alone the hammer) COMPLETELY one-handed, from start to finish, without even straining, let alone injuring myself. I don't see small women being forbidden to even enter the weight throw, in which they might very well injure themselves even performing the evolution as perfectly as an Olympian. It makes no sense, and even seems prejudicial, to force someone like me to comply with a rule created to "protect" scrawny Munchkins. This whole thing has nothing to do with technique, since this Masters rule does not exist for either NCAA or Olympic throwers (I know all too well, since I entered my first Masters hammer event three days after throwing in a college meet at age 52.). If they were really oh-so worried about Senior athletes hurting themselves, there probably shouldn't even BE throwing events of ANY kind after the age of 70. (I watched a 70-year-old shot putter in Baton Rouge break her arm falling out of the ring on her follow-through.) There is no logical rationale for this rule in this day and age.



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Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:45 am

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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:11 am
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Location: Northern Illinois

Over 10 years ago I was told that the rule for the weight throw was changed to only allow for two-handed throws to "distinguish" the track & field weight throw from the Highland games weight throw. Highland games weight throws must be done with one-hand.

The rule to only allow for two-handed hammer throws is a recent addition, only in the past 2 or 3 years, if I remember correctly.

In both the hammer and weight, I believe USATF treats masters, open and youth alike; all must release with two hands. Same with NFHS (high school).

I didn't know about the NCAA previously, but you're right, and it's the same in IAAF rules:

Quote:
HAMMER & WEIGHT THROWING REQUIREMENTS:
The hammer and weight must be thrown with both hands in USATF and WMA on the grip or handle. One hand throwing of the hammer or weight is not allowed unless there is a handicap. The NCAA and IAAF do not have that requirement although I have never seen these implements thrown with one hand except in the Highland Games. Otherwise there are no other form rules. After starting the rotation of the implement, it is no longer a foul if the implement hits the ground inside or outside of the circle during the spin, even if the athlete stops and restarts the throw.


I had never heard previously that it was related to keeping the athlete from injury. That makes no sense, like you stated. Hell, if you don't want to get hurt, stay on the couch! Any activity has a risk of injury.

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Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:01 pm

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Master Masters Athlete
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Location: Columbia, MD

I have never heard that the 2-handed release rule has anything to do with preventing injury. While I'm not sure what the origin of the rule is, it has been in place for decades -- ever since I first started throwing the hammer and weight in graduate school in the late 1960s. I don't believe it was new then because if you look at photos and film of throwers decades earlier they were using a 2-handed release.

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Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:23 am

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Master Masters Athlete
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Location: Northern Illinois

Jerry, I don't think so....as far as the rules are concerned. Everyone throws with two-hands because it's a superior technique with the weights (and lengths) of the implements involved. But the rules are more recent than the late-60's, I'm sure of that.

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Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:49 am

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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
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Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

IAAF has no rules about one or two hands, as far as I know.

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Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:38 pm

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Junior Masters Athlete
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If you all read my post closely, you'd see that I wasn't talking about making the entire evolution one-handed (though there's no reason it couldn't be). I was talking about being called for a foul over and over because the two hands didn't release simultaneously. My shoulders do no rotate equally well, so my right hand has to release a fraction of a second before my left does. It is ONLY - repeat, ONLY - the last fraction of a SECOND that the implement is held one-handed. But that's still a foul to the Masters event officials because of this asinine rule that actually has no function in the real world whatsoever.

And these are the same officials I've seen working the discus who can miss the landing point by more than a full meter and not turn a hair over their lack of exactitude...



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Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:00 pm

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Master Masters Athlete
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Location: Northern Illinois

Mary, could your condition be taken into consideration under the "handicap" portion of the rule:

Quote:
HAMMER & WEIGHT THROWING REQUIREMENTS:
The hammer and weight must be thrown with both hands in USATF and WMA on the grip or handle. One hand throwing of the hammer or weight is not allowed unless there is a handicap.

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"No matter which you choose, you won't be too far from being right." -- JChang



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Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:27 pm

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Junior Masters Athlete
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Could be, but it's pretty tough to prove a handicap that isn't visible. And to whom do I present my request for handicap exemption? The official AT the throwing ring? I doubt he or she has the authority to grant an exemption on the spot.

But my own personal situation is beside the point. Rules generally have to have a rationale of some sort, no matter how flimsy. There is absolutely no rationale that I can see for calling a foul if the right hand comes off the grip a tenth of a second - or even a full second - just before the left hand does. The rule - AS WRITTEN - means to prevent performing THE ENTIRE EVOLUTION one-handed. I don't believe it was EVER designed to apply to just the last tenth of a second before implement release.



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Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:31 am

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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
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Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

But where is that rule? IAAF hasn't, so with the IAAF-rules on paper you could prove to throw according the rules. Or not?

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Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:35 am

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Master Masters Athlete
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Location: Northern Illinois

Weia, I don't have time to look it up now, but it is the USATF rulebook.

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"No matter which you choose, you won't be too far from being right." -- JChang



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Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:06 pm

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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
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Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

I see, it is indeed a Usatf addition to IAAF's rule 191: http://www.usatf.org/about/rules/2011/2011rules.pdf
Compare IAAF: http://www.iaaf.org/mm/Document/06/28/8 ... nglish.pdf

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Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:27 pm

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Junior Masters Athlete
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Okay, I just checked both the IAAF and USTAF rule books (thanks for citations, Weia!). The IAAF says NOTHING about the hands on hammer and weight throw. The USTAF just says that the competitor "shall use both hands," but absolutely nothing about both hands coming OFF the implement at EXACTLY THE SAME INSTANT. It's possible at Masters someone interpreted "shall use both hands" to mean that "the two hands must be used every single second until the implement is on the way out of the cage." That seems like a GIANT leap past logic - especially when the IAAF doesn't even say THAT much! The fact remains that everyone should be playing by the same rules. If I can drop my right hand off the handle a fraction of a second before I release the left in the Olympics, and in NCAA competition, without a foul being called, why in the Wide, Wide World of Sports should it be a foul in Masters competition...???????



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Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:51 am

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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:11 am
Posts: 87
Location: Northern Illinois

Mary, I fully agree with you. In addition to being a masters hammer thrower, I'm also a USATF-certified official at the national level for throwing events. In over 12 years of officiating the hammer/weight at meets for all levels, from high school through masters, I have NEVER called a foul for this reason. I have only seen it called once, and it was extremely obvious when it happened....it really was a one handed throw in that instance.

Also, if you watch many throwers' techniques, you'll see one hand being used to start the hammer and weight (mainly the weight) leading into preliminary swings, or winds. Why is this not considered a foul?

As an official you have to use common sense, along with an understanding of the rules. I realize this doesn't help you. Maybe you need to lobby to have this USATF rule changed to match IAAF since you're personally affected?

Greg

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"No matter which you choose, you won't be too far from being right." -- JChang



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Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:18 am

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Master Masters Athlete
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Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

Throw abroad!

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Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:24 am

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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:43 pm
Posts: 5

GTheo, apparently I've been competing in the wrong meets. Because it's been called on me in EVERY meet I've participated in - including Nationals (in two cases, costing me gold medals). In fact, I'll go so far as to say that in one National Championship hammer throw event, the ring official was positively GLEEFUL to call the "foul"...!!! He loved my frustration! Really got off on his power to negate eight of my ten attempts for something that I had done legally four days earlier in an NCAA meet.

Weia, perhaps I'll get a chance to throw abroad, someday. Maybe when it becomes impossible to live in the U.S. on $7200 a year Social Security Disability....



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