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Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:55 pm

 
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I'll bebe throwing the 35# and 56# real weight in competition for a few months.

Turned 60 in January and the 20# is going to go back on the shelf until summer.



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Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:00 am

 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
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Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

We had a hammer thrower who far into his sixties did three throws with the open class hammer (>40m) and then three with the WMA implement (>55m).

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Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:15 pm

 
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I can throw the open weight implements. Anybody can. So what? They just don't go as far.

Personally, I prefer a longer walk when I go pick up my implements. And I also like head-to-head competition against my peers, ALL of whom throw the implements designated for their age group.

I guess I don't see the point of sticking with the open weights. Is it some kind of ego thing?

The only thing I can think of is that it gives an advantage to people who are strong on strength, and weak on technique. But there are already events for those folks - it's called power lifting.



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Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:17 am

 
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In the javelin throw there is a point to stick with the open class implements. There is much more choice in javelins and it is safer to throw with a longer jav, Next year I'll be 60 and have to throw the 400, the tip of that jav is behind my ear...

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Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:39 am

 
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Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:03 am
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Location: In the sticks, Western PA

Just curious - is it illegal to throw an implement that is too heavy? I'm a sprinter, so I honestly don't know. Seems like there are situations when the heavier javs might actually be easier to throw.



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Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:26 pm

 
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That's correct that it would be nicer, but it is not according to the laws....

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Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:22 pm

 

Hadabetter, In your last post, why is it that you feel the need to belittle those very few that may want to throw an Open weight implement past fifty years of age now and then, and have it mean something if they do well? Do you really feel that threatened and claim that all those that do are just just gym Rats or genetic freaks with no talent that want to show up the rest? Then you say anyone that does should go powerlift? That arguement can be used both ways as well. If people are interested in making lighter balls go further in distance and going for longer walks, there's an event for them too...it's called Golf. Tell Kathy Jager and William Collins they have an advantage over the rest of the field because their stronger and quicker than the rest since they train more than them, so the 200m. in their age group is changing to the 140m. dash because it's shorter and easier for everyone else. Be the one to say to Carol Finsrud she needs to go to the softball throw because most women still can't throw the 3k. shot put further than when they were throwing the 4k. in their forties. Tell long jumper and triple jumper Tyrone Brown and Carl Flower's that since knees, ankles and achilles at that advanced age tend to be more brittle and aching, they must now go to the standing broad jump so it's easier on their bodies and others may feel compelled to compete in those events. I mentioned multiple times in this forum that no one wants to replace the standard weights that are now used, just add the Open weight for the few that wanted to do so and you still feel the need to insult those few that express their opinion in wanting to do so by saying they are only physically strong and weak in technique. Over the Last ten years I've seen way more than my fair share of Masters athletes throwing lighter implements because they think it's easier and in fact do horribly, possibly physically endangering themselves in the ring and others around them, especially in the hammer and discus, but I've always tried to support them and help them if possible after the event or meet in pointing them to someone who could help them, giving advice or training tips... not tell them to go find another event. In my own opinion, I believe the ego problem sits with you sir... I know most folks know who you are in this forum, but It would also be nice for you to put your name at the end of your posts so that we all know who's saying what...Milton Girouard


Last edited by Ironslinger on Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:52 pm

 
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Just thinking of throwing a 16-pound shot at age 54 makes my shoulder hurt.

But that's just me.

I fully support the option of letting anyone throw open implements. But that's up to the meet director. Just ask nicely, and you'll be surprised at the results.

But I have a big problem with parallel sets of throwing records -- the official WMA/USATF age-group specs and the IAAF specs.

We already have a HUGE problem keeping track of the age-group records. Add another layer of recordkeeping, and I'm afraid Hal the Computer will go nutso again and pull the plug on all our support systems.

For many years, Pete Mundle tried to keep track of different sets of throws records, and now it's a complete muddle. For example, you can see men's records in the 16-pound shot from age 35 to age 91. But I'll bet half of them are wrong.

See a 2006 version here:
http://www.masterstrack.com/news2007/smar1.pdf

So if Pete can't do it, what chance do mere mortals have?

USATF won't consider parallel sets, trust me.

But if anyone wants to start a Wiki, be my guest. I tried, but few responded.
http://agerecords.wikispaces.com/

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http://www.masterstrack.com



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Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:07 am

 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
Posts: 202
Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

You have a point in the problem of parallel sets. But it already exists in meet results, quite often it is unclear with what weight the masters have thrown... The easiest solution is to do away with WMA-weights ;-) As I've told I did a check: I saw that M90 and W55 use the same 3k shot and distances thrown by the best M90 are about the same as my non-shotputter's W55 distance, so I picked up a 7.26k, it is heavy, but it doesn't hurt, it just flies only 5m or so. What is wrong with 5m?

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Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:05 pm

 

I've written a few folks in the know on this subject and even though it may be a good idea, The USATF as Ken mentioned previously will not add rankings or records for a category that is not endorsed by them, So...I will add on to my Myspace page an "Official as it gets" 2009 Rankings for Men and Women throwers around the world, 50-100 years old, who would like to throw any Open weight ( shot, discus, javelin, hammer, weight) in any meet but must be recorded in a results format that I can look up on-line and verify. Send your results to discus147@yahoo.com with your name, sex, age group, event, weight of implement, distance thrown, date + location of meet and site where results are posted. To see the site it will be put on it's www.myspace.com/ironslinger50 There... that should satisfy everyone! :wink:



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Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:46 am

 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:24 am
Posts: 202
Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

I do not have all details but here a Dutch hammer thrower who liked the 7.26k. His name is Rinus Schreuder, born 15 november 1941:
as M50 54.44m
as M55 52.46m
as M60 48.04m
as M65 45.80m
Not bad... His all time best was 55.02 just short of his 40th birthday, so he remained at that level for about 11 years.

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regards, Weia



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Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:11 am

 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:27 pm
Posts: 105

Thanks to Ironslinger, we have an informal meet going every Saturday.

So I get to throw the javelin, 56# and 35# weights, 2k discus, 16# shot at the age of 60. Was a bunch of fun. I might die today, but now I have some marks that make sense. No more trying to figure what the 1k is compared to last year's 1.5k discus.

Didn't need to walk far to bring the implements back. Surprise how well I did with the two weights.



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Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:38 pm

 

The best part of the last reply from Rev GJ was him writing... it was fun. For a few, I know it can be. Thanks for the update!! Milt



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Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:47 pm

 
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Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:56 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Houston, Tx

Ironslinger wrote:
Hadabetter, In your last post, why is it that you feel the need to belittle those very few that may want to throw an Open weight implement past fifty years of age now and then, and have it mean something if they do well? Do you really feel that threatened and claim that all those that do are just just gym Rats or genetic freaks with no talent that want to show up the rest? Then you say anyone that does should go powerlift? That arguement can be used both ways as well. If people are interested in making lighter balls go further in distance and going for longer walks, there's an event for them too...it's called Golf. Tell Kathy Jager and William Collins they have an advantage over the rest of the field because their stronger and quicker than the rest since they train more than them, so the 200m. in their age group is changing to the 140m. dash because it's shorter and easier for everyone else. Be the one to say to Carol Finsrud she needs to go to the softball throw because most women still can't throw the 3k. shot put further than when they were throwing the 4k. in their forties. Tell long jumper and triple jumper Tyrone Brown and Carl Flower's that since knees, ankles and achilles at that advanced age tend to be more brittle and aching, they must now go to the standing broad jump so it's easier on their bodies and others may feel compelled to compete in those events. I mentioned multiple times in this forum that no one wants to replace the standard weights that are now used, just add the Open weight for the few that wanted to do so and you still feel the need to insult those few that express their opinion in wanting to do so by saying they are only physically strong and weak in technique. Over the Last ten years I've seen way more than my fair share of Masters athletes throwing lighter implements because they think it's easier and in fact do horribly, possibly physically endangering themselves in the ring and others around them, especially in the hammer and discus, but I've always tried to support them and help them if possible after the event or meet in pointing them to someone who could help them, giving advice or training tips... not tell them to go find another event. In my own opinion, I believe the ego problem sits with you sir... I know most folks know who you are in this forum, but It would also be nice for you to put your name at the end of your posts so that we all know who's saying what...Milton Girouard


Agreed - My comments were extreme. I probably needed more fiber in my diet that day. :)

People certainly can throw whatever weight implements they want to throw, and at any age.



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Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:22 pm

 

LOL...John, I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not, but thanks for letting us know how you feel on the subject. Most won't even give an opinion either way. :wink: Milt



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