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Sun May 09, 2010 10:55 am

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Location: Utrecht (Netherlands)

As far as I know throwing distances thrown with a heavier implement is not allowed for records. Is that correct? If so, isn't it a bit strange?
By accident I had my first javelin meet today as W60, but in the open class. I threw 29.28 with the 600g, good enough for a national record, but that has to be done with a 400g!

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Sun May 09, 2010 3:45 pm

 
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I guess it's like breaking a record from an age-group younger than yourself.



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Sun May 09, 2010 4:10 pm

 
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When I read the rules there are minimum and maximum measures for the manufacturers, but for the athletes they only speak about 'minimum weight'. So much more than the minimum is allowed?

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Wed May 12, 2010 9:01 am

 
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I like lpalmer's answer. It would make more sense to me for you to compete in the age group that was appropriate for the heavier implement, than to compete in the older age group with a non-conforming implement. I'm not sure either practice is allowed though.

It takes a slightly idfferent skill set to throw implements of different weights. Maybe the rule was created in recognition of that.



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Wed May 12, 2010 11:53 am

 
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I contacted our national record committee and it is possible to improve a record although the implement is too heavy - but only when you're forced to throw the heavier thing. In my sunday meet that was the case, it was the interclub competition where only open class implements are allowed.

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Wed May 12, 2010 6:17 pm

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Location: Chico, CA

It is my understanding that records must be set with implements meeting standards for weight and dimensions. About five years ago, I set a single age American record for the 2 kg discus. I submitted the paperwork signed by USATF officials but was told there were no official single age records for people over 50 using international implements. Maintaining records for 5-year age groups is difficult enough without adding non-standard events.

Tom Fahey M62



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Thu May 13, 2010 5:26 am

 
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There is more to consider than just the weight of the implement. The specifications for a 400 gram javelin are considerably different than those of a 600 gram javelin. i.e. center of gravity, length, etc…

Tim Edwards



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Fri May 14, 2010 5:42 am

 
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Location: Houston, Tx

Yes tedwa851, I agree. I think that when you change the implements it really becomes a different event. I know of many people who can throw the 700g jav further than the 600g version.

And not everyone has an easy time making the adjustment from the 1.5 kg discus to the 1.0 kg. Maybe Discusdoc can comment on his experiences with that.



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Fri May 14, 2010 11:33 am

 
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This reminds me of the classic story about the American throwing the discus in the 1896 Olympics. Having only seen pictures of what a discus looked like from the ancient Olympics, he made a metal copy to train with that weighed about 20 pounds. Before the Olympics he saw results from the Greeks athletes who were throwing dramatically further than he was, so he thought he had no chance. But when he arrived at the Olympics he was told he couldn't throw his own discus becuase it wasn't regulation. Given a real discus for the first time which was comically smaller and lighter than he was used to, he won the gold medal.



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Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:04 pm

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Journeyman Masters Athlete
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:26 pm
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Location: Upstate NY

Oddly, his lack of familarity with the discus (he never threw a regulation disc until the Olympics meet itself) actually helped him -- and not just because he practiced with overweight implements. It also helped because the Greeks who were thought to be favoriites were highly stylized in their throwing technique, seeking classical beauty as well as distance. Garrett literally learned throw-to-throw and after getting a few laughs from the crowd for his first pathetic attempts, he invented a version of a spin and won gold. Not even 30 meters, but heck, he invented a rotational throwing method on the fly to win. He could only put the shot about 11 meters, but even this suggests more than enough strength to throw a discus perhaps 32-36 meters if he had only practiced his spin in advance.



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Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:09 am

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In my opinion, the throw with the 600g should count as the record.



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