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Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:42 pm

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Location: Upstate NY

I'd like to know the AA standard in the 25 # weight throw for M55-59. The rankings indicate 9.0m but NMN shows this to be the standard for the 35# weight -- which is not the official weight we throw in the age group. I can easily extrapolate from the 56# (5.50m) and the 35# (9.00m) what the 25# should be (10.67m) but I have long ago given up on this sport making sense. Is there an official AA standard for M55 for the 25# -- the one we are made to throw? If so, where can it be found? The Catch 22 (we throw 25# but the standard is for 35#) is annoying but no big deal. I appreciate any help you can offer!



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Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:08 am

 
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Mike, there are standards available in the older rankings data (pre-2007). Not only do they have distances for the M50+ weights, they have adjusted AA distances for the M40 and M45 35# weight that differ from those published in NMN.

Scroll down on this page to the weight throw:

http://www.mastersrankings.com/2006/MFIELD.HTM

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Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:11 am

 
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Thanks! Of course, they make no sense -- what else? 13.25m for 25#, 9.00 for 35# and 5.50 for 56# -- what universe do these folks live in? That curve suggests an astonishing exponential decay from 25# to 35#. On the other hand, John Seto reported an AA std of 10.00m in the 25# for M55 -- which makes a lot more sense, although a little easy, but which one is official? Mike



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Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:22 pm

 
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Mike Fortunato wrote:
On the other hand, John Seto reported an AA std of 10.00m in the 25# for M55 -- which makes a lot more sense, although a little easy, but which one is official? Mike


Mike, where did John report this? Just curious if there's another set of AA standards floating around.

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Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:24 pm

 
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Plus, I train with a guy who's 57 and has gone over 11.00 in his first season throwing the 25# weight. He'd like it if the AA standard was 10.00!

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Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:18 pm

 
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Well, there's actually NONE floating around. I asked John Seto (who I also threw with this weekend at Easterns) if he know the official M55 AA std for the 25# (which I calculated to be 10.67 if the curve is linear) and he told me by email that the standard is 10.00m. I see that the 2006 old standard was 13.25! I, myself, am 57 and just threw the weight and superweight for the first time this weekend at Easterns and threw 12.44/5.80. As I am a small sprinter-thrower, fast but weighing only 230, you'd figure I'd be better at the WT than the SWT (which is really a very big hammer thrower's sport) and I made AA in the latter, so I'd like to think 12.44 makes a fair standard in the 25# weight, but I'm in-between these two "standards" myself, like your friend. I will ask John where the standard can be found, so I can share an official document. Stay tuned.



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Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:19 pm

 
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I'm obviously an oversized sprinter but an undersized thrower at 230...Been in-between for a long time...



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Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:35 pm

 
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Perhaps the super weight throw AA standard is too low? If 13.25m makes sense for the 25# then 5.50 is too short for the 56#. I don't know of any event in which one can halve the weight and more than double the distance -- not the shot, not the discus, not the hammer -- or am I wrong? This throwing distance goes up by less than the % decline in weight of the implement. So a 25# implement should not go even twice as far as a 56# -- which means something UNDER 11.00 ~ 5.50 or the 5.50 is too short.



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Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:36 pm

 
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GTheo -- I see you are in No Illinois -- going to throwing nationals?



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Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:50 pm

 
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Unfortunately, the AA standards in the Men's Weight Throw are very outdated. They have not been changed since we adopted the WMA standard weights which happened in 2001. Prior to that date men threw the 35# weight until they were 70 and then switched to the 20# weight in USATF competitions. The standards are based on that assumption. The same is true of the M60-69 superweight, which was changed from the 56# weight to the 44# weight three or four years ago. The AA standards need to catch up.

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Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:03 pm

 
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Jerry ~ (1) Do M50-9 athletes have the right to ask to throw the 35# at meets and have it so recorded? That way, we can try to beat the 9.0m AA standard. (2) I have a doctorate in a mathematical field -- I volunteer to review any and all old standards with a committee, if you like. I can facilitate a normalization of standards with old AA standards, WMA world lists, WAVA age graded tables (including the new 2010 tables), and numbers and performances of US masters athletes. It would not be hard for a technically proficient with a desire to help to do this! ~Mike



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Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:04 am

 
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Mike Fortunato wrote:
GTheo -- I see you are in No Illinois -- going to throwing nationals?


Yes! I just haven't entered yet, but I will early next week. I'm planning on just throwing the weight and superweight individual events. And then I've "volunteered" (Ha!) to help during the remainder of the ultraweight pentathlon.

The Illinois Assoc masters meet will follow the throws nationals meet on Sunday afternoon, also at Benedictine Univ. I'm either throwing or officiating (maybe both) for that too. Here's meet info in case anyone wants to compete in that after nationals:

http://www.usatfillinois.org/docs/2010% ... 20Info.pdf

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Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:30 am

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Were there any plans regarding All-American Standard updates discussed during the recent annual meeting? Just curious since I believe it was at the 2009 annual meeting that a potential update was addressed.

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Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:02 am

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No discussion. That's not something that gets done during the Convention. Jeff Brower is the chair of that subcommittee and as I recall he was looking for some help to update those standards.

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Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:01 am

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Thanks for the info, Jerry. I'd offer to help, being one of the few that seems to have interest in the subject, except that I have very little expertise in statistics.

Greg

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