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Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:58 am

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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:59 pm
Posts: 10

I'm a strong proponent of pumping iron for WEIGHT lifters !!!!
NOT for Weight Throwers.
Pumping iron develops muscles, slow twitch muscles, just the opposite for weight throwers !!!! Most motions are static, lifting weights, with the odd snap. Weight throwing incorporates the whole body in motion, flexibility,
quick twitch muscles, full extension of arms, body and legs !!!! How completely opposite to weight lifting.
I exercise with 10lb pound dumbells, for about ten minutes, the remaining half hour situps etc. NO push ups.
Light warm up before practicing, then throw, throw, throw; muscle memory takes effect so that I can analize the throws and vary at will.
Results show the benefits:- innumerable Canadian records, last year broke records sixteen times, two world records as well.
Altogether now, three world records.
Did not throw the weight or hammer untill I was 75, got serious aged 78,
Aged 80 a world record in the weight throw, without ever pumping iron !!!!
Plus breaking Cdn. records around 20 times.
May I add-- except the javelin !!!! Too damn light.
I was criticized about not doing multiple spins and would do better if I did so !!!!! Sorry World Records are the best I can do.

Riccione Garry

AND:- check out The Throwers Club at www.throwersclub.ca
operating out of Stouffville Ontario Canada. A dedicated bunch of throwers about twenty or so, with frequent guests. At the website, check out The Throwers Cage by Bill Pearson for commentary. Results and records by Rudy Boghina, many photos etc. in cooperation with Bill Pearson.
Many links, world wide included.
We hold five events annually with awards for years performance at years end.

Riccione Garry.

Garry



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Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:41 pm

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Master Masters Athlete
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Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:01 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Chico, CA

I think kettlebell training is good for building strength and power for track and field athletes. The method is highly ballistic and includes a lot of high speed eccentric contractions from the basic athletic position. It also doesn't seem to load the joints as much traditional weight training. I've also include a lot of whole body functional training (standing chest presses, rows, and turn machine on Lifefitness machine).

I bought a 20 kg kettlebell and attended one of Pavel's 3-day kettlebell certification workshops. The course almost killed me. I think we did about 700 reps a day (9AM until dark). I was so tired that my body shut down and I had flu-like symptoms for a week. I think it was Conan the Barbarian who said, "Anything that does not kill us makes us stronger." It might have been Friedrich Nietzsche, but my vote goes with Conan

I'll have to wait until the end of the year to see if my training method works. However, my shoulders and back feel better, so there might be something to it.

Tom Fahey M60



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Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:33 pm

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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:59 pm
Posts: 10

Pardon my ignorance but I have not the slightest idea what kettle bell training is !!!!!

I have never been coached, never competed provincially. nationally or internationally until I joined the CMAA in 1984 (aged 63). I then asked a coach for some input, he too put me through some such training as you describe.
Regimen and discomfort is not my bag. I train with pleasure and enjoy tiring. I compete not for gain but for pleasure.

Riccione Garry :wink:



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Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:41 pm

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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:53 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Minnesota

Garry (and others) - as a high school strength & conditioning coach and a weightlifting coach, I feel the need to respond to this thread. I understand what you are saying about "pumping iron" and exercises being the opposite of what's required for throwing. Whether training with weights is sport specific or not, developing muscular strength is still going to help improve performance. The key for athletes though, is to train like athletes, not like your average person working out at the health club. You should perform ground-based, multi-joint movements, with free weights. Sitting down on a machine, while isolating a muscle group is not as beneficial because its not how you move in your sport. In almost every sport, you perform while standing on you feet, moving different muscles in a coordinated way, through all three planes. In the weight room, the best weight to train in this manner, is with the use of Olympic lifts - the snatch and the clean & jerk (the weightlifting lifts). They are ground-based, total body lifts, that also are performed explosively and do help to develop the fast-twitch muscle fibers. You are getting a triple extension (hip, knee, and ankle) in the leg, as well as full extension in the upper body joints. They also develop and require flexibility. The snatch in fact is the most explosive movement in all of sports. These are the most sport-specific lifts there are, and they certainly will help any thrower. I also would strongly recommend all squats, as well as lunges and step-up types of exercises. Now that being said, I probably wouldn't recommend starting weightlifting (snatch, C&J) at the age of 80 for your average person. But then again, I wouldn't consider masters track & field athletes as your average person. Garry, your training has obviously worked well for you. Just don't be so quick to eliminate all types of weight training. Weightlifting can definitely help if done and used correctly.

Scott



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Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:54 pm

 
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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:59 pm
Posts: 10

I do not dismiss weightlifting entirely. My working life was physical.As an electrician, climbing-well developed legs, much lifting, constant moving.
I feel the emphasis should be placed on the acts of throwing.
I would like to allow for weight lifting but cannot see it as needed.
I am no guru in sports, the results speak for themselves.
Two of my clubs best, large throwers, moved like ballet dancers.

One look at my NON muscular arms one would wonder how I do it.
Looking elsewhere one would see a well developed right side of my body,
from neck to toe. Right shoulder area well developed, disproportionaly so, ditto for the right leg. Development where required.

Your response is just what I was looking for, discussion !!!!! Thanks.

Riccione Garry



[/u]



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Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:25 am

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:56 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Houston, Tx

Kettle balls are heavy iron balls with handles welded on them. Imagine a throwing weight with a handle and no chain. Needless to say, you can manipulate them in ways you couldn't using a bar with plates on each end. But both are resistance exercises, i.e., weight training.

Throwing would also constitute weight training of a sort. It's just at a much lower intensity level, which would allow higher reps. One thing you are not going to get from throwing as your only exercise is balanced development on both sides of your body. You're also not going to increase your strength as much as you would working with heavier loads.

Maybe when you reach the higher age groups the implements get light enough so that strength is less important, and it's more about quickness and technique. I'm not there yet, so I need to work on all three.



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Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:26 am

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:27 pm
Posts: 105

Tom, kept looking for you down at San Jose.

Anyways, I use my 35# weight for KB swings. I tried a few kettlebell exercises and felt my dumbbells and throwing weight are just as good.

Did a three week session of snatch grip deads, while standing on four inch blocks. Box squatted on rest days. Nearly killed me, but really helps my throwing.

Right now, moving to snatch grip straight legs deads. Again, nice stuff for the discus.

Also, have a trap (shrug) bar that I leave set up at 275# and do a dead with 5 shrugs a bunch of times during the day.

Between three week killer seasons, I do two weeks of GPP, mostly barbell complexes. I do power snatches and power cleans. Too old to try and get the oly lifts right.



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Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:35 am

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Senior Masters Athlete
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:59 pm
Posts: 10

Sounds like slave labour to me.

All you say is beyond my ken.

RG :oops:



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