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Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:13 pm

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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:09 am
Posts: 7
Location: San Diego

Hi all,

Great site here, wealth of information, just what this 50+'r needs. I am trying to get back into shape after a 25 yr hiatus from pole vaulting (called life :D ) and am having difficulty transitioning from jogging to sprinting. I've built up a base of regular lifting / jogging (~10 miles a week) since mid-July, lost a bunch of weight, and have really tried to be good to my body: only running on soft grass, stretching, icing, etc. Twice now I have tried to make the transition to a sprint workout with the result being a 2 week plus layoff due to soreness/injury - It feels like I'm always playing "whack-a-mole" keeping the latest injury in check.

The first attempt was doing 4 easy 330's on an all-weather track which resulted in some pretty good knee pain which felt like it was in the IT band connect point around to the front of the right knee (like in the meniscus pads/top of tibia). So the latest attempt, after a full recovery, I thought I would try some easy ~100yd sprints on the artificial-turf football field (avoid curves/hard track). Seemed like a good plan, however, here I am 16 days later with achilles soreness and what feels like plantar faciitis in the left foot.

I'm gonna see the doc in a couple days see if he'll get me into PT and get new orthotics. In the off time, I am continuing working weights upper and legs and need to drag my bike out to keep my wind up.

Any suggestions on how to ease back into sprinting?

Thanks!



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Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:04 pm

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:57 am
Posts: 121
Location: Huntsville, AL

I would try training on a soccer field. Its soft and has less impact on the body. I train like this all the time.

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Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:35 pm

 
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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:09 am
Posts: 7
Location: San Diego

tphit wrote:
I would try training on a soccer field. Its soft and has less impact on the body. I train like this all the time.


Thanks tphit. Thinking about starting with really shorter stuff this time around - maybe 20 - 30 yds - then giving it a couple days and see how I feel. Softer surfaces should definitely help.



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Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:07 pm

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 54

Super short stuff like 20s-30s aren't neccessarily better since you'll want to run full speed and the risk of injury is greater. Try the 100s at 80-85% effort. Work on form and knee lift. It will probably feel like "whack a mole" for the first year! Ice baths work wonders! Have fun!



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Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:43 pm

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:57 am
Posts: 121
Location: Huntsville, AL

I agree. You need to build a solid base. Lower intensity workouts but higher volume would be better. Concentrating on the mechanics versus the speed.

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Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:45 pm

 
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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:34 am
Posts: 5
Location: Toronto

I think the best way of getting yourself back into sprinting is buy sprinting.
You should always work short to long. Your body can't handle the 330's and even running 100m sprints.
Quality, not quantity is the answer.
First I would find a proper dynamic warm up to get your body ready to go.
You must not run these accelerations like they are the final of the Olympics
Start with 4 to 6 10 meter sprints. core work, weights legs. Done
Work up to 10 reps you can time them and they should be consistant all the way thru.
Work to 20m start witjh 2 to 4 10 meter accels the go to 4x 20m accels
you should work up to 8 reps
For 30m use the same formula and work up to 6 to 8 reps 3minute rest between each one

Your dormant muscles will come around and if you work quality and are patient you will find that the soreness will disappear.



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Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:02 pm

 
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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:34 am
Posts: 5
Location: Toronto

One more thing.

Stop! running 10 miles a week it does more harm than good!!!!!



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Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:22 pm

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 54

Hi Speedfactory
Did you notice that we are talking about a person who is coming from 25 years off running? I love the sound of the workout you gave, but is it really appropriate for an injured and injury prone 50 something who is just getting started. It sounds a little dangerous to me. Age and time off are huge factors.
The first workouts I did, coming from a similar situation, were 10x100m working on form and knee lift. Just lifting the knees and tucking the pelvis was work and the distance was enough for a beginner to start building a base. It was not so intense that I couldn't move the next day, yet enough to feel like something was accomplished. Any thoughts?



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Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:58 am

 
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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:34 am
Posts: 5
Location: Toronto

How dangerous is running 4x 10 meters.
you are only sprinting 4 or 5 steps. you are not opening up your stride
enough to cause any damage to your hamstrings. I think you put alot more stress on your body running 10 x100.
Remember, you must be patient. I would do this work out, twice a week and gradually build up your reps. Make sure that you don't do this work on two consecutive days. I would throw in you 10x100 work out on an off day.

I have trained many athletes in your situation and the results are amazing.



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Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:46 am

 
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Journeyman Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:20 am
Posts: 39
Location: rochester, n.y. area

To question a world champ is, perhaps, foolish. But, in my experience, very early in training range of motion, relaxed strides up to about 3/4 pace at whatever distance works is what I'd recommend. The 10m accelerations are an intriguing idea, makes me curious to check out speedfactory's seminars. (I believe you have a web site?) I'd only undertake them, though, once I was ready to start sprinting. My two cents...
Bill



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Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:20 am

 
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Master Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 54

This is what our forum is for!! Great input! Thanks!

Another question or two or three for Speedfactory. You recommend the above workout twice a week for a beginner. When would you have him do weight training? Same day? Are you saying speed workouts only for a beginning sprinter? Do you recommend any other running at all or strictly the two workouts? How about crosstraining?

THANKS!



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Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:17 am

 
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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:34 am
Posts: 5
Location: Toronto

I find that people who are getting back into our sport usually set themselves up for failure. They pamper themselves trying to avoid injury. When they last trained they were 20 to 30 pounds lighter.
Then they come back start putting on milage jogging, and runnig tempo, Needless to say If I started running milage and tempo with an extra 20 to 30 pounds on my back. My ankles, knees , hips and tendons will be sore too.
Then after doing all this base work you decide one day to go out and sprint. OOPs you get hurt. with all the work you put in you get discouraged and decide to stop.
The trick is to use your imagination to get you body moving fast again
without the stress on your body.
Try using a stationary bike and do speed work on that, pool work is great too. No stress on the joints and you can go as fat as you can without hurting yourself.
The key is to get the twitch back into your muscles

The weight training for your legs should be done on speed days
Recovery on off speed days should be tempo. Remember your not in college or high school so don't go crazy keep it to 800 to 1000 meters total
Trying to run 300's without being strong enough to do them is looking for trouble. I would work the upper body in the weight room on these days.
If you train anaerobically you will be surprised how fast the weight comes off.
Be patient!!



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Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:28 pm

 
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Junior Masters Athlete
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:09 am
Posts: 7
Location: San Diego

First of all, what great information and help from everyone...more than I had hoped for - very cool. Thanks tphit, leigh, Speedfactory, and bill.

Speedfactory wrote:
Stop! running 10 miles a week it does more harm than good!!!!!

Actually, the 10 miles a week is what helped me get the weight off (3mi - 2mi - 3mi - 2mi easy jogs on grass) and built up some kind of strength in my feet and legs which was sorely missing. I started out "shuffling" - I wouldn't even do it the honor of a calling it a jog :) - and just 30 minutes of work regardless of the distance. Then as weeks progressed, my feet and legs could better handle propelling this old carcass a few inches off the earth with each stride. But the aerobics stuff also helped me shed the pounds. At 5'11'' 190 I am now about 10 lbs away from my goal weight of around 180. My waist has dropped 5 inches with a lot more muscle in the right places. But I hear ya that the repeated pounding I'm giving my joints jogging may not be the best way to keep the wind up - if that's what you are referring to.

Speedfactory wrote:
I think the best way of getting yourself back into sprinting is buy sprinting.
You should always work short to long. Your body can't handle the 330's and even running 100m sprints.
Quality, not quantity is the answer.
First I would find a proper dynamic warm up to get your body ready to go.
You must not run these accelerations like they are the final of the Olympics
Start with 4 to 6 10 meter sprints. core work, weights legs. Done
Work up to 10 reps you can time them and they should be consistant all the way thru.
Work to 20m start witjh 2 to 4 10 meter accels the go to 4x 20m accels
you should work up to 8 reps
For 30m use the same formula and work up to 6 to 8 reps 3minute rest between each one

Your dormant muscles will come around and if you work quality and are patient you will find that the soreness will disappear.


"work short to long" - Great advice! The shorter stuff sounds appealing to me and here's why - structurally my body is revealing the weak points in the entire equation, knees / feet seemed to be the first to complain. A shorter distance/intensity sprint is going to put me through the correct motions but not overstress areas where my muscle/tendon strength may have diminished. The 2 days after a workout is when pain reveals the problems. If I can keep from overdoing it, each successive workout should see increases in strength in these weak points, correct? During the previous sprint workout attempts I was in this glorious "hey this doesn't feel too bad" delusional state - so although I was tired on the 4th 330 and the 5th 100 I did not realize the injurious pain I was going to feel in a few days.

Speedfactory wrote:
The trick is to use your imagination to get you body moving fast again without the stress on your body.


Ahhh, great idea - get the fast twitchers going again without the anatomical stress.

bill wrote:
relaxed strides up to about 3/4 pace at whatever distance works is what I'd recommend. The 10m accelerations are an intriguing idea, makes me curious to check out speedfactory's seminars.


Yeah lower intensity to start and working my way up sounds like a good plan.

btw - Doc says heel pain is not plantar faciitis - he took some xrays, pain is on the sides of the heel when he pressed. He says PF hurts more an inch closer to the arch from the heel when pressed - should hear back in a few days.

Leap



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Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:52 am

 
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Journeyman Masters Athlete
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:20 am
Posts: 39
Location: rochester, n.y. area

Good luck with the foot injury, Leap.

Since speedfactory didn't post the link to his web site, I thought some people reading this might be interested in this link to geezerspeed ( memory tells me Ken blogged about this a year or two ago)

http://www.geezerspeed.ca/



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Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:51 pm

 
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Senior Masters Athlete
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:00 am
Posts: 23
Location: Miami

How are ya KS!
Do you recommend the same short sprint workouts for a "Hibblit"? (had it but lost it). Due to 4 years of injuries and mishaps, I have lost almost everything. Now it looks likes I'm about 90% healthy. :D That's good news for me. Now it's time for my hamstrings to notify my fast twitch muscles that it's ok to start "twitching" fast again. Think the short stuff will work on hibblits? Thanks!
linda



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