How San Diego USATF protected ‘the integrity of the sport’
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USA Track & Field has this funny thing about freedom of movement. You can move your legs down the track, butt over a pit or body across the ring. But try to move your association status on your membership card and Katie bar the door! The story that follows is true, and I don’t even change the names. But a change in direction is called for — a new national policy to address inequities in how masters exercise their affiliation rights. It all began four months ago. In June, Rita Hanscom approached her local USATF association with a polite request: May I please transfer affiliation from San Diego-Imperial to the neighboring Southern California Association? The SDI Board of Directors barely batted an eye. They approved her move. In July, she competed at Oshkosh nationals as a proud member of the SCA-based Southern California Striders. In August, she won five gold medals at Lahti worlds. This month she was named WMA Masters Athlete of the Year. Nice catch for SCA! Fast forward to Oct. 21. Wearing my Lahti bronze “to prove I was an athlete,” I approached the SDI board with the same question. I also spoke on behalf of my wife, Chris, and Linn Dunton, a national-class W50 thrower who couldn’t attend the 7 p.m. meeting. After a half-hour discussion, the board voted 8-1 to reject our transfer requests. Why? The association needed to safeguard its interests and “protect the integrity of the sport,” said board member Tonie Campbell.
Thus ended a four-month journey through the wacky world of USATF association politics.
As I telegraphed last June, when I solicited advice on jumping associations, this process has been a lesson in frustration and fuzzy logic. Chris and I merely wanted to be listed as Striders on our USATF cards and see our club listed next to our results at major meets. Scoring points at nationals? Nice thought, but don’t bet on it. Mainly, we wanted to be seen as full-fledged Striders. Not “unattached” as our cards erroneously decree.
We started by asking Rita to carry our request to the SDI board in June. The board told Rita, a deputy attorney general in California: “No thanks. Chris and Ken have to appear in person. Get on the agenda.”
So on August 19, the next SDI board meeting, Chris drove down to San Diego City College. (Rita also attended.)
I had to work that night, so Chris presented my written appeal:
I am seeking a transfer to take advantage of club benefits that can’t be had in the SDI Association. No club in the SDI can provide the mentoring, fellowship and training opportunities that I can find in an SCA club. More than 10 years ago, I was a member of the San Diego Track Club, wearing its Cabrillo singlet. But the SDTC offered no support for my high jump and hurdling interests, so I resigned. I also was a member of the San Marcos-based Speedwest Track Club. But the club offered little but a uniform and it dissolved two years ago.
Secondly, I would like to be in the same SCA club as my wife as a shared experience. Her transfer request is being considered separately tonight.
I was told by phone – just yesterday – that I may join a club in the Southern California Association because the SCA has an open-door policy on athlete transfers.
I am providing the board with the required transfer form.
I am an athlete in good standing. My last competition was August 8, 2009, in Lahti, Finland, and my USATF card has listed me as unattached for at least two years.
Thanks for your kind consideration.
Sincerely,
Kenneth D. Stone
USATF No. 1910066644
Chris, Linn and Rita left the meeting in shock.
Graeme Shirley, the SDI’s masters track chairman, raised a slew of issues, including: How about if SDI started a masters track club? What if we provided you coaching in San Diego? What if all this is moot, and the Southern California Association doesn’t accept your transfer? We wouldn’t want to leave you in limbo!
The board never called for the question. No vote was taken. And our transfer request wasn’t even tabled officially. They just told Chris and Linn they’d revisit the issue at their next board meeting in October.
Hoping to resolve at least one question — whether SCA would accept our transfers — I wrote and phoned folks in the association just north of San Diego.
Last week’s email had this note:
Dear Ken and Chris,
Â
As per our conversation regarding your transfer from San Diego Imperial to Southern California Association, please refer to the email which was sent by Dave Snyder and Delivered to Jay Beltz of the San Diego Imperial Association with copies to myself, Mark Cleary and Bob Hickey.
Â
Southern California Association agrees to accept the transfer of Chris and Ken Stone. Â
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This transfer would need to be generated by San Diego Imperial in accordance with the USATF Regulation 7 B 1.
Â
Regards,
Â
Sonya Harrell
Southern California USATF
13039 E. Florence Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA. 90670
562 941 2621, fax 562 941 6180
www.scausatf.org
Â
OK! Great! SDI approval would be a slam dunk!
Oops. Maybe not.
Board President Jay Beltz opened the Oct. 21 meeting by saying, “We’ve thought about this for two months” and he had polled the board. A consensus was reached. Didn’t say what. Didn’t take long to learn it.
Graeme Shirley said: “Our job as members of the board is to develop all athletes at every level of this sport. We have to look at what’s best for San Diego . . . and for this sport.” He said it’s “virtually impossible” for youth, cross-country and road runners to transfer, so allowing masters athletes to jump ship would be unfair! Indeed, allowing such transfers would be “to the detriment of the association.”
SDI Treasurer Lolitia “Lish” Bache said: “I’m kind of torn in several different directions.” But she was worried about a masters exodus dooming SDI to never having a masters track club. Our transfer, in fact, would be a “disincentive” for masters to form clubs in San Diego.
Yet men’s LDR chairman Thom Hunt said: “As a board, it’s not our job to form or maintain (masters) clubs — but to support them.” But letting masters go would hurt chances for such clubs.
Tonie Campbell, an Olympic hurdle medalist, noted that Chris and I already were members of the Striders and could partake of club benefits.
“The only thing you’re not contributing is points,” Tonie said. “As a steward of the sport, we have to protect the integrity of the sport. At some point we’re going to have a disparity. . . . I haven’t heard a compelling argument that (moves) me to help you. . . . This board’s position is to uphold the integrity of the sport at large.”
Tonie also took some offense by my failure to seek local coaching.
“You haven’t previously come to me asking for coaching,” Tonie said, “and I’m one of the best in the world. I’d be more than willing to work with you for free.”
Things got weirder still.
Graeme told me: “The logic behind your argument is that the association system is fundamentally flawed and shouldn’t exist.”Â
Someone — either youth chairman Michael Adkins or women’s T&F chairman Adam Henderson — called my comments “self-serving” and said I repeatedly “cast the association in a negative light.”
(Actually, my “negative” remarks merely pointed to a lack of masters track opportunities. No masters clubs, for example. It could have been worse. I could have noted that SDI failed to put on a masters track championships this year.)
Midway through, Jim Skelly spoke up. Jim is head of local officials and well-respected on the national level. He began by saying that in his 18 years with San Diego-Imperial Association, only four people had formally asked for a transfer — Rita, Chris, Linn and me.
Jim said: “We’re here to support the athletes. We should be big enough (to allow transfers). If four want to transfer to (Southern California Association), I’m all for it.”
Of course, I had my say, too. At various times I noted:
- USATF is supposed to be an athlete-centered sport. How is the association acting in athlete interests by denying us transfers?
- Rejecting our requests only drives masters transfers “underground,” since nonkosher ways exist for athletes to change associations.
- USATF governance rule 7 simply tells how association transfers are done — and says nothing about “the integrity of the sport.”
My biggest regret was not mentioning Rita’s transfer. So it’s OK to let the best female masters athlete in the world go but not the slowest M55 sprinter? Is it fair for the vast majority of other USATF associations to grant transfers but not San Diego?
Do only athletes with law degrees get smiled on?
Didn’t get a chance to use those zingers. Drat. The board called for executive session, and I left the room. Summoned back, I got the news. Transfers rejected — with only Skelly dissenting. (God bless him. But confiscate his USATF card for jeopardizing the integrity of the sport.)Â
But we’re still not done. Before leaving the meeting, I informed Jay Beltz and the board that I’d be making an appeal to Indy.
Jay smiled and said: “See you at the next level.”
“Bring it on,” in other words.
USATF’s national office in Indianapolis will soon be receiving registered mail from the Stone home, asking for a grievance hearing on this matter. In addition, I’m looking into a proposed USATF rule change that would clarify the transfer process — and keep local associations from arbitrarily making up the rules as they go along.
Such a change was discussed in August at a USATF associations workshop in Des Moines, Iowa, I’m told.Â
Bottom line: It’s not about me. It’s not about Chris or Linn. This is about a USATF association dictating how mature adults govern their own track lives. This is about double inequities — an association going rogue against every other association policy in USATF as well as going schizophrenic internally. SDI ignored its own precedent! Rita yes! Linn no!
Someone get this association some meds!
Ever hear of the equal-protection clause?
In December 2004, I wrote about the USATF annual meeting in Portland, Oregon, where similar issues were raised:
This issue was heavily debated, with M50 sprint world record holder Bill Collins making the point that we are all “grown-ups” and “don’t need to be told who we can and can not compete for.”
Now I’m hoping that grown-ups show up at the next annual meeting — in Indy.
Oh, I forgot to mention where last night’s SDI meeting was. We met in the offices of a defense contractor called FGM Inc. (Nice suite. Soda machine had no prices. Push a button and out pops a free Coke!) The building occupies space in a former military base called the Naval Training Center. Now it’s a mixed-use development called Liberty Station.
Liberty.
Freedom.
What quaint ideas.
Especially in San Diego-Imperial USATF.
56 Responses
Right on Ken!! We totally support your cause and you will prevail. Small-minded, backward thinking cannot survive, because it doesn’t fit in with the philosophy of our activity.
Right on Ken!! We totally support your cause and you will prevail. Small-minded, backward thinking cannot survive, because it doesn’t fit in with the philosophy of our activity.
Ken, you should make sure Doug Logan get’s a copy of your grievence letter. I know that the issue has come up about 4 or 5 times at the convention and has been voted on by the athletes and supported by the Masters Track & Field executive committee. The attitude has been that we are adults and pay our way and do not want USATF at any level to tell us for whom we can compete.A couple of years ago when Grame Shirley proposed new legislation that would prohibit athletes from transferring it was shot down( he was the only one who voted for it)– then get this he went to the Law and legislation committee later that day and said that the Body of Masters Track & Field supported his proposed legislation–we had to advise them a day later that this was not our position.At that time it’s my opinion that Graeme should have been fired as the Rules guy for Masters Track & Field–he could not even tell the truth on our behalf( The Masters executive committee). This happened back when George Matthews was still our Masters Chair-so quite sometime ago.San Diego has said that they would start a Track Club that actually does Masters Track & Field, they only say this as a means of pasifying their Masters athletes–this has gone on for over a decade closer to two decades now.This is an example of an Association not serving it’s Masters Athletes- but serving itself–they don’t want their numbers to go done because this could put them on shaky ground with USATF and they might lose their acredidation as an Association.Plain and simple this is what it comes down to.The National office is talking about having a review board and take the transfer process out of the hands of the Associations ( Another bad idea)–in my opinion this is just more big brother- which we don’t need and could potentially make things worse then they already are) currently San Diego Imperial is the only Association holding Masters Athletes against their wishes–we just need to make a stand at this years convention that we don’t want anyone in USATF telling us where we can go and for whom we can compete. A very interesting fact is that Graeme’s own wife left the San Diego track Club ( she was a past president of the club to run for the SoCal track Club and set several records back in 1998 &1999-so it’s a bit hypocritical of Graeme and the Association to think that was not good enough for his wife-a decade later should be good enough for the other Masters Track & Field Athletes in the San Diego/ Imperial Association.I think if the National office get’s their way with having a National review board for transfer approval that the Masters Executive committee will ask for an exception to that rule for Masters Track & Field athletes.
Why do you guys put yourselves through all this grief by declaring a team affiliation to the USATF? If you want to be on a team, and share the cost of coaching, and train together, and compete together, and all dress alike, then do it. Just don’t tell the jerks at USATF about it. Then you would be free to hang out with whatever team you chose.
As far as I can see the only downside is that your team name wouldn’t appear in the event results. Big deal…if you win often enough people will come to respect the team name you have on your uniforms.
Well, sometimes you want to compete in a USATF event as a team, then they (USATF) got you by the hind end! I have been fighting Lake Erie Association for 20+ years….
Why not just let your yearly membership lapse, then apply for a new membership at SCA?
Ken,
I had a somewhat similar issue. I am a member of the Georgia Association but I wanted to run with my friends on the SouthWest Sprinters club. Per Regulation 7(?), I bought two memberships: I purchased my “athlete” membership for Texas and I am registered in Georgia as an “administrator” (you cannot compete for more than one association).
This has caused a bit of political consternation in Georgia but it is allowable under the national bylaws.
Can’t you change associations at the end of the year when your membership is up for renewal?
For crying out loud-we’re not talking about NFL free agents moving teams with million dollar contracts involved. Much to-do about nothing which seems to be a Masters Track credo. Kettrell your boy in the SDI Association is at it again!
With the current state of track and field in general, you would think that USATF and the associations would be as accomodating as possible just to make it easier for anyone to compete wherever they want.
Paul B – you hit the nail right on the head. This is ridiculous! If I wasn’t part of Lake Erie Association, I wouldn’t believe this was happening. I have seen from other members how they react to divorce requests. lol
That’s a good question about waiting for membership renewal time. It ‘sounds’ like a solution.
In response to the people who suggest simply changing associations at the end of the year:
Not so simple:
You may only legally belong to an association in the area in which you reside unless you are given permission to transfer, which the SDI association refuses to do.
umm… the USATF is not the IRS or US Government, even though they sound like they’re trying to be. Just list your residence on the application at a friend’s LA/OC area address or get a PO box up there. Solved.
It’s not that easy for the club which is accepting an application with a bogus address that attempts to sidestep this requirement. I’m assuming the club knows that this is not a legitimate address, which raises this issue: Does the club want to accept the application knowing it’s fostering such deception? I agree that this is ridiculous on the part of USATF and we should be able to transfer associations if we wish, but asking the club to help lie for you is not the answer.
There is a simple solution to this problem. We athletes want to be associated with the TRACK CLUBS of our choice. We can care less about the Association. The clubs provide priviledges and benifits; not the associations. When we join USATF we are geographically placed in an Association. This can remain that way forever; but, we should be free to join any TRACK CLUB in the country. With that being said, the USATF should discontinue linking clubs with associations. That way, we can join and represent the CLUB of our choice without USATF being involved.
I take serious exception to Mark Cleary’s accusing Graeme and the Association of hypocrisy due to my having joined the Southern California Track Club a decade ago. I did exactly the same thing Ken Stone has done: I joined a club in another associatin and wore their uniform. I enjoyed the camaraderie and I have maintained friendships with a number of their members before and since my time with the club.
The similarity with Ken Stone ends there. I maintained my membership in the San Diego Association, attended our board meetings, voted in our elections, competed in our Association Championships, officiated at our meets, and was named San Diego’s Master Track and Field Athlete of the Year. I never requested an association transfer, so no hypocrisy was involved on anyone’s part. The only hypocrisy I see is Ken Stone wanting to abandon our Association, mock our volunteers, and claim that his actions benefit our athletes and programs.
I like Dexter’s solution…baffle them with their own b.s.
Ken, good luck with your pursuit of running for the club of your choice. The responses given to you from SDI are laughable. An association that is confident of the programs and benefits it provides to it’s membership would never refuse such a request. I bet dollars to donuts that SDI’s refusal of your request indicates that the association is weak.
Look, we are all competitors. Why shouldn’t associations be allowed to compete for membership by striving to better it’s programs. More time should be spent making membership so attractive as to not to want to leave rather than to hold meetings to deny transfers out. The “Berlin Wall” mentality has always failed and it always will.
Disgusting, Ken.
What if we ALL bombard the Doug Logan and the SDI with letters?
I say…..
“DONT TREAD ON ME”
Run where you want , when you want to and for who/whom you want to.
We are runners, after all.
Yes Paul SDI is up to their antics again.
I went through the same BS in 2002 when I represented So Cal Track Club. I was denied a transfer along with another SDI athlete. The president of SDI at the time was G. Shirley. His reason for denying me a transfer, other associations were taking the best SDI athletes. In my opinion “NONE”. I took my fight to the top of USATF and was granted a transfer. The SDI Prez did not have a legal or legitimate reason for refusing my transfer except for his our personal reasons, again, in my opinion.
As a former SDI board member I am well aware of the politics carried on by SDI, which is the reason I walked away from it.
Its so funny that SDI has the audacity to prevent athletes from representing another association when their association didn’t even put on “ONE” masters track meet. Makes you say hummmmmmmmmmm.
Ken, I will email you on the procedural issues to be taken for the grievance by Friday night.
Let me point to very strong teams that recruit master athletes from outside their associations: Athena and SO Cal Track club.
My club team, Boulder Fleet Feet – Real Women – Real Team, have two athletes that live in other associations. They has to move from Colorado for work, but maintain their club and Colorado association status. They had to provide documentation that the new associations did not provide that same access to coaching, training, competition, as the Colorado association. Both were approved very quickly and without issue.
Ultimately, if your association cannot provide for Master athletes competition, club training, there should be no reason not to allow a transfer. Why so easy for Sol Cal? Athena? Should be just as simple for all master athletes.
The issue is not as HUDGE youth or open athletes, these athletes have the most available training, coaching and competition.
Ashley Huxman Clubs
Andy Martin Associations
Doug Logan
I thought Lake Erie Association was bad, San Diego must be right on its heels! The grievance process of USATF is a bunch of bull, usually they set it up so you do not win win. It is a true shame. No one at USATF can tell me why an average 40+ year old distance runner needs USATF. So, therefore, USATF will never grow it ranks. Lake Erie Association just announced when their open/masters Cross Country meet is- 3 weeks from now. So much for advanced notice!
Seems to me there are only 13 masters Clubs in San Diego-Imperial, not a whole lot for probably a population of over 1 million. Masters athletes should be able to compete for whom ever they want- not like there is a ton of money to be made by winning a club title!
This is sad to hear about such gridlock and bureaucracy in even master’s track and field. You’d think those of us that are a bit older would finally be able to distance ourselves from such things after being subject to overinflated ego’s and “rules fo rules sake” starting with our parents, schools, our work lives and any other extracirricular activities we chose to engage in. I guess if there was a mobility scooter club for ninety-year-olds, the club would be rife with bureaucracy and rules and by-laws and the ever-present perversion of the golden rule “them that has the gold – make the rules”.
You guys ought to be glad you don’t live in Oklahoma – Not much happening there for masters track and field – and even less for those who are not runners and walkers – try to find a meet to compete in if you are a thrower or jumper – you Okie masters know what I’m talking about. Oklahoma is pretty much “kidz rule” or better yet “kidz from Tulsa and Jenks rule” – We pay our money for USATF memberships and our state associations provide nothing.
I’m sorry you all are having to go through that.
I’m curoius what association you have to reside in to compete for Nike or Addidas, like the elites do? Bubba
So how is Athena able to circumvent this rule? They have athletes from Colorado, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and upstate New York, just to mention a few. Have all of their athletes applied for, and were granted, the permission to transfer?
If you read the previous emails you will understand how Athena and other clubs are able to circumvent this rule. Do not hate on another club for being successful in getting it’s runners.
Easy there…why so defensive? You would think you would share your wisdom of how you are able to get athletes so easily from different usatf regions, rather than come out with accusations of hating on your club.
The issue here is why San Diego is denying a legitimate transfer request, not why athletes with SoCal, Southwest, Athena and others have been allowed to do so. The process for transferring has been described.
A number of USATF local associations offer no support or benefits for masters athletes. In such circumstances it is wrong (and small minded) that they should prevent people who happen to live in a certain zip code from join a team that will enable to compete and enjoy their support.
Placing such arbitrary restriction on masters athletes enjoying their sport will only lead to such athletes leaving USATF competition.
What are you refering to, when you say support for masters?
What associations do support masters?
all my association does is have one masters meet per year and i swear they pick the worst date they can come up with, so that they can say there is no interest.
Defensive, because some are trying to exploit a club and place them under the microscope. Follow the suggestions that were mentioned in the previous posts and I wish those fighting much success.
San Diego seems to have had issues for a very long time.
SAD!!!!!
I was being generous when I said “some associations do not support masters”. 🙂
I might have said, the USATF associations I’ve come into contact with offer absolutely no support for masters.
Masters competition really only starts at a national level and associations contribute nothing. “Chaining” a masters athlete to a particular association serves no purpose.
Good luck Ken.
It looks like the USATF has forgotten that they represent the members. I agree that any organization needs to have some sort of guidelines and rule but in Tennessee, Masters track as far as I can tell gets no support. There was one USATF meet listed for Masters in Tennessee but good luck trying to get even an entry form. Conserning Masters track, I feel no loyality to whatever local group there may be around here and if they provide no service to us, I see no reason to follow their program.
It may be time to start a Masters only organization.
Bubba – Nike and adidas are corporate sponsors. An athlete can compete for both a club and a corporate sponsor (though most of the shoe companies do not allow them to take advantage of this). Corporate sponsors do not score points.
I heard thaat recently the association presidents had a workshop presented by the national board and one of the things addressed was athlete transfers between associations. The national orgaqnization frowns on it. Think of how many more junior and youth athletes there are and the chaos it would cause if everyone could transfer at will. There could be recruiting of athletes from one youth team to another between associations. Maybe the president of the San Diego association was just trying to stick to the party line as he learned at the presidents workshop.
People are talking about the San Diego board “providing more opportunity for masters competition, training, coaching etc.” The board is composed of 6 to 8 volunteers who are just overseeing the sport in their local association to make sure that the rules, regulations and policies of USATF are followed. They do not run the sport. If athletes want clubs and all the benefits that clubs provide than they have to start up their own club. That is what the Southern California Track Club has done. The San Diego Track Club did that 40 years ago and for 10 years they had one of the best clubs in the USA. People get old, injured, burned out, move away and before you know it, the club system and interest has died down. I even won a national championship this year and I live in San Diego but you don’t know who I am because I am one of those “unattached” competitors. If you want the benefits of a club than get some people together and form one. Ken Stone is not going to be driving all the way up to Orange county to train and get coaching. Traffic prohibits it. He should have formed his own club in San Diego. With his internet and local contacts and access to the biggest newspaper in town it should have been a slam dunk.
I get a real kick out of the few people who’ve told Ken he should stay in SDI and either take advantage of the opportunities that exist or form his own club.
Nothing like a bunch of self-important know-it-alls telling a middle-aged man what to do.
The clubs I’ve run for have won 11 national titles in the men’s 40-49 division (xc and roads). And with one exception, every runner has lived in the So Cal Association (one runner moved out of the area halfway through the season, but we allowed him to finish the season with us – a good idea since USATF rules prohibited him from finishing it with a club in his new association).
But I don’t give a hoot whether other clubs follow the same modus operandi. Know why? Because masters runners are adults and can choose who they want to run for. We pay to be members of USATF. We spend money on training. We spend money on travel, and meet entries, and lodging, and everything to do with our sport.
So leave your bureaucratic noses out of our business! Got an itch to exercise power over somebody else? … Go down to a busy city street and yell at jaywalkers.
Oh, and get a life.
Meanwhile, stop telling masters athletes like Bill Collins and Ken Stone and myself and the vast majority of everybody else in our sport that you’re right, we’re wrong, and we have to do it your way.
Dweebs.
quote: mike walker | October 23, 2009 1:51 PM | Reply
….
It may be time to start a Masters only organization.
Masters Swimming (usms.org) has their own organization. They seem to be doing ok.
Why not appeal directly to the NABR for a transfer or simply give your written designation regarding the transfer as determinative?
According to Regulation 7, an athlete who is unable to obtain agreement of the two Associations may appeal to the NABR, which shall conduct a hearing by conference call and make a determination on the basis of what is in the best interests of the sport and of the athlete.
As stated in Regulation 7 (D) Resolution of disputes: It shall be the responsibility of the athlete to give proper notice of a change of
representation. In the event of a dispute among and/or between clubs, educational institutions, organizations, and an athlete regarding a transfer of representation, the athlete’s written designation of representation shall be determinative.
Seems like paragraph D gives the simplest and easiest way to compete for the club of your choice.
Bravo. Well spoken.
Anonymous October 24 2009, 6:30am
Having followed this issue for the better part of two days, this is the best of the bunch. Why not ask, what are all the issues here? Perhaps the board is acting in the best interest of the sport.
What fun is it when we go to the National Championships and vie for a team title when there is little to no chance of winning because of teams like SoCal Striders and other teams that aggressively recruit the best from outside their area?
While I enjoy the opportunity to win individual awards, I’d like a fair chance at a team title. I say good for SDI. It give us little teams a fighting chance.
Dear Anonymous, (such a popular and upstanding name used by people who like to hide in darkness)
SoCal and Striders are two separate clubs. You are incorrect to lump them together.
Striders doesn’t recruit anyone out of the area. People go to them because of who they are and what they stand for.
Striders has a long, distinguished history and tradition. And we were drawn to that team because of its fine group of supportive, knowledgeable athletes, who welcome competitors of all abilities — from their newest member, world-class Rita Hanscom, to accepting low-level but committed athletes like me. Members all generously share training tips and give encouragement. We didn’t choose — and were not recruited — for some competitive edge.
Brenda Matthews, an excellent club president, sets the tone of integrity and support for and pride in ALL of its members. It’s an honor to be associated with this wonderful group of talented, caring individuals. And we all know masters track is about camaraderie, good health and fun.
So the record needs to be set straight.
We seek to join Striders because our association simply doesn’t have ANY masters clubs or local masters meets. (Road running clubs i.e. San Diego Track Club, yes) It’s not a matter of heartlessly abandoning something for a competitive edge. Out of necessity, we regularly travel to the L.A. area to compete in masters meets because there is simply nothing in our own backyard.
And we respectfully followed our association’s rules in seeking a legal transfer.
Transfers should be allowed when associations lack masters clubs and meets, such as ours. It should be that simple.
We’re not advocating a recruitment war.
Clearly the rules of the USATF are not being applied in a uniform manner. For an association to grant one athlete a transfer, and then to deny it to others is unfair, but also contrary to USATF regulations.
When I resumed competing 6 years ago, I ran into the former head of my post collegiate track club. He invited me to compete for the club again but I didn’t think that was possible since I now lived in a different association. He told me I needed to request a transfer of association, which I did, and within a couple of weeks, I was competing again for my former club. After a couple of years of competing for my former club, I realized I lived too far away to particpate in relay time trials, club events, etc.,so I decided to join a new club in the association where I reside. All it took was an e-mail, which I copied my intentions to both associations. Since I had not competed for my former club in a 6 month period, the transfer was immediate. Both associations handled the request in a timely manner, and I was able to join my new club immediately. From what I’ve been told, as long as you follow the rules of transfer, the associations should accept the transfer.
My transfer was from the New England Association to the New Jersey Association, and back again.
Always an honor to follow Ken Effler, and 44 is my lucky number. Of course, I am not personally affected by any of this, as no club would want me to compete for them (I am a member of Potomac Valley).
Impressed by all the energy on the questions raised by K. and C. Stone, but I haven’t seen too much lately on bigger questions. Does masters T&F have a future in the US, will there be some sort of affiliation with the National Sr Games Association, will records set at big meets that are not national masters championships be given at least “pending status”? These are some of the things I think about from time to time….Does anyone know what the “grand plan” is for masters T&F in the US?
Mark Cleary. I lived in Southern California for 24 years and coached the PV at UC Irvine for 14 years. We know each other. I think, if you don’t mind, I’ll compete for SoCal next year. I bet I’ll have no problem making the transfer and I’m in Texas.
Can you send me your club number and membership info? Thanks!! Bubba
Judging from most of these blogs, we have a bunch of libs out there. The heck with rules…… just do what you want. Even if it ruins the sport of competition among clubs.
Even though I live in California, I want to register in Oklahoma to vote because I want to. I like the candidates they have there better than in Cal. Perhaps I want to pay Oklahoma Income Tax rather than California. I wonder if I can get an Oklahoma Drivers License, too. After all, if I love Oklahoma more, why not?
Another way to look at it is to see that you can belong to any track club you want. You just can’t score for Nationals and Regional.
Seems like if you really like the Masters sport, you might want to give back to it and help form a club rather than sit around and let everyone else do the work for you.
Why is it that the national rules allow each association as the “to and from” to vote on it? Why do you think that is? Is it to maintain competition among teams and not allow these mega teams to develop? If the rules allow the association to vote it down, so be it. The association board members of SDI volunteer their services to promote the sport of Track & Field in their assigned association.
Well said
to above anonymous 2 emails: If that were true, there would not exists paragraph D in Regulation 7 (D)
Resolution of disputes: It shall be the responsibility of the athlete to give proper notice of a change of representation. In the event of a dispute among and/or between clubs, educational institutions, organizations, and an athlete regarding a transfer of representation, the athlete’s written designation of representation shall be determinative.
What is clear is that no direction from National is ever ultimately given. Always vague, open to interpretation, so no real authority is given or enforced.
USATF National can not enforce any decision made at the association level. Even when the association has been found to be in violation of by-laws by the NABR.
Please, USATF National will you make a formal comment on that statement.
I can only find rules to National stepping in if there is a drug issue or sexual misconduct allegation.
National please have some clearly defined rules that are enforceable and in place equally. It feels that you have to be on the “in the good old boy club” to get workarounds from the rules.
USATF should move towards more transparency and clearly defined objectives.
@Deb Conley – I am a member of the Law & Legislation Committee for USATF. We have been working on an amendment package that addresses the very issues you raise. At this year’s Annual Meeting, a new governance package that mirrors the Boards strategic plan will be presented to the membership for approval.
Part of this package is to properly align the convuluted association bylaws and operating procedures to be more compliant with the national governance manual
Please allow me to add my few cents worth as I am a long time member of USATF for about the past 25 years (I am 47) and a frequent critic of USATF and especially the Lake Erie Association. As a Social Studies teacher, I see that we have an arcane system that was set up to “govern the sport.” Nothing wrong with that premise, but it is not done correctly. USATF will never grow its membership nor will it ever have as many members as it does now because of three very important things.
1. Perception of the Organization and perceived value. USATF is seen as an “elite” organization. The average athlete is not going to join something that he/she feels intimidated by. As far as value- what does USATF membership get the average athlete who runs road races? Lake Erie Association open/masters Cross Country meet is Saturday, November 14. There will not be more than a dozen open/masters athletes there. How do I know? Well entry forms are not available on the web site or anywhere else. The race director of even the most local road race will never allow this to occur! We are just a “before thought” to the J.O. program later. At the National Level, I attended the USATF CC Championships and the indoors masters meets. Both nice events, but most road races provide more “goodies and amenities” to the participants besides a hat for $35.00 entry fee.
2. USATF local Associations are mostly run by “volunteers.” My argument is why run for office and then keep status quo. I can only speak for Lake Erie, but that management has not changed much in 25 years and their open/masters membership has dwindled!
3. Demographics are next. USATF has a pretty good J.O. and Youth program, but as these athletes get to middle school and high school, they compete for their respective teams and only the “elite” keep at it. At the masters level, we have a big “baby boom” generation between 55 and 65, but in ten years, it will be 65 to 75 and there will be injuries that will limit and end membership, and then, of course, the inevitable, death.
Well now, it appears that we have a double standard, with some athletes being held hostage, and others being able to freely jump clubs & assocaitions.
Maybe USATF should clarify and enfore the rules that already exist, or maybe they should change them so that we all can compete for the SoCal Striders, Southwest Sprinters, Athena, and Sprint Force America. Having just a handful of clubs at nationals might make the scoring easier. LOL!
This strikes me as some people just wanting to win team titles and break relay records at national meets, as opposed to developing the sport within in their own city or region. Which of these two scenarios do you think is better for fair competition? I think that the Milrose Games has it right…NO ALL-STAR TEAMS.
Ken,
I seem to remember a LOT of NJ athletes competing for NY clubs over the years. They wanted to run on potentially record-setting relays, with their friends. Nobody seemed to care. I didn’t know it was an issue. Why should anyone care? Seems you should be able to run with anyone you want. It’s easier to change citizenship and run for Denmark in the Olympics than to change associations!
So many comments with such a degree of diverse opinions. After re-reading the USATF rule, it does allow for transfers, but only with the agreement of both associations. Some associations allow athletes to transfer, while others don’t.
Looking across the country at all the associations, some serve track and field and especially masters track very well, while others might have great J.O programs but neglect masters, and worse yet, some associations do nothing well at all.
What I’d suggest is a change in the rules. Make everyone register in the association of your home address, but allow (for a reasonable extra fee or part of the original registration fee ) the athlete to register/join the club of their choice, regardless of association. The extra club registration fee, or part of the registration fee would go to the association
that the club in registered in.
Clubs would register as local clubs (own association members only) or National clubs (members from anywhere). At the National meets award championships in both categories.
Associations that have strong club’s in place would gain additional revenue to hopefully put on better or additional events. Associations like Ken’s SDI might encourage the development of local clubs to keep revenues local, rather than losing them to neighboring associations.
As athletes we should have the choice to join whatever club we wish to. At the same time we should demand from our local associations, that they provide us with opportunities to compete locally.
ChestBeaters … as you bring up the subject of relays, how many masters clubs in the entire country have enough members that are willing to travel to national championships so that they could field relay teams at 4×100, 4x400m and 4x800m in an age group?
Outside of Southern California and New York, and maybe a few other large urban areas, how many places in the US have enough masters athletes to make fielding relay teams even a vague possibility? Many events at the national championship have less than eight participants from across the entire country, let alone a single USATF association.
Those that want to run masters relays have a choice. Find a team with enough members of the right age, gender and event interest, or they give up the sport.
And regarding club championships, other than perhaps SoCal, does anyone care about the national club championships?
What grand purpose is served by not allowing adults to run with their friends and make their participation in national championships more meaningful and a worthwhile use of their time?
Bubba Sparks, our club number is #302 and our club website is http://www.socaltrackclub.com Of course I remember you we have been at several of the same meets competing and I admire you as always being super supportive of all athletes, where ever you go. We would welcome your membership and contrary to some peoples opinion we do not openly recruit all over the country. There are athletes in Associations that do not have Masters programs and we have a large group of athletes that talk to people and make friends–it’s not all about just trying to win National team titles, but we do like to win and collectively it has worked out for us–Thanks Bubba I look forward to hearing from you–Mark
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