Masters proposal would change 4 of 5 women’s pentathlon events
If W65 multi-eventer Mary Trotto has her way, the women’s outdoor pentathlon would get a radical makeover. Bye-bye, hurdles, high jump, shot and 800. Hello, 200, discus, javelin and 1500. Only the long jump stays. (This applies to open as well as masters pents.) National masters chair Gary Snyder is carrying that proposal for a rules change to the USATF convention in Anaheim. As promised, the rules-change slate has grown by seven. Gary is sponsoring the amendments to the rules. Others involve implement specs. Check them out at end of this PDF. Gary (on behalf of Ray Feick) also wants a new masters meet called a National Throw a Thon Championships. See event details.
Idea behind proposal for new pent: Get more older women in the game.
27 Responses
what a wonderful news!
With all due respect the pentathlon is the pentathlon.
It was formulated to require a specific combination of skills . You just can’t change it because some of the events are less convenient to practice .If you want to recommend a new multi event for Masters go for it . High jumpers ,pole vaulters and hurdlers know all about limited practice facilities . We don’t stop doing it .Next we will have people recommending changes in multi events based om their own individual skill sets .
penta is penta,same than penta in all champ,same than whith the Young..What the women’s Masters (who make hepta usualy) are going to make ? stop the competition? There will be no competitions for them! The 1500m and the discus are never in the penta or the hepta! The real events are the same to Masters and to seniores. It is ridiculous to want to change just to put the name on a novelty! Maybe the 100m should become the 90m just to change something?
An extra pentathlon is OK, changing an existing one not. In fact the pentathlon isn’t an important discipline, only the heptathlon is. In my country all tracks have a high jump pit and hurdles. Maybe not the lowest hurdles, but the difference is small and only the very old can have problems with that height.
I agree with Weia and Bert. The current mix of events is great.
Wait…Reason: rarely available equiptment for hurdles and highjump? What about making your own out of some plastic pipes. And my highjump-standards are 2 upside down flowerpots with a pipe in it. Primitive, yes, but it works. Ask my jumping partners. If you really want it you find a way.
At the convention two years ago it was mentioned that Europe was making some changes to this event. Probably best to see which events are being competed at the world championship … and do the same events.
WMA’s outdoor meet contests the hep and the dec, but not a pent. WMA indoor meets have a women’s pentathlon with the usual events: hurdles, high jump, shot, long jump, 800:
http://www.world-masters-athletics.org/files/laws_rules/Appendix-A-K.pdf
Please vote NO on this. I prefer the current pent lineup.
I’ve had trouble with the hurdles this year, but I am NOT in favor of changing the events currently contested in the Pentathlon. They reflect the varied abilities of a multi-event athlete. Mary’s suggestion favors strong throwers, who can run longer
distances. We presently run the 800m ( which 90 per cent of us hate), and I can’t imagine that more of us would be thrilled to run 1,500m! It seems like I read of a proposal a few year’s ago to change from the hurdles to the 100m sprint. What happened to that idea?
I’m betting this proposal will go nowhere. Even if it’s supported by the Masters T&F Committee (which is a long shot), it likely will go down in flames with the wider Rules Committee. They’ll probably say: Why fix it for a handful of old women?
Looking at the other masters rules…
YES to moving the M60 XC teams from 5 score back to 3 score. We made a decision to ignore that change at the local level anyway, we rarely have M60 teams with 5 athletes.
Throw-a-Thon? Masters throwers already have the Masters Throws Championships, on top of the indoor and outdoor T&F championships. Too many championships dilutes the idea of a “championship”.
Nice solutions Annelies!
Almost all masters athletes have trouble finding facilities that will allow them to practice hurdles, high jump, and pole vault. Schools don’t leave the equipment around due to liability and vandalism reasons. Should those events be discontinued in masters track because of a lack of universal availability for practice?
At least the current men’s pentathlon has it’s roots in the early Olympic games. With the exception of the 200m, all of the events are part of the decathlon (the 200m as a substitute for the 100m or 400m). The women’s pentathlon, should reflect its Open and Olympic cousin, the heptathlon. If you want to change the rules for W65 and older, simply drop the hurdles, and high jump, and add the 200m and the javelin. At least 5 of the events will mirror the actual events of a heptathlon. Why change the 800m to a 1,500m? Why change the event for the younger competitors, who may have been heptathletes in their younger days.
Becca (#12)
The Throw-a-Thon may not be the answer, but if too many championships dilute the idea of a “championship” I guess the LDR community has a very serious dilution problem. I’ve lost count of how many “championships” they have over the course of a year. That observation is central to Ray Feick’s reasoning behind proposing a national championship Throw-a-Thon.
There’s only one throw-a-thon held, why not just call it the national championships for fun?
Yes, I do think there are way too many LDR National Championships. I think there are too many Race Walk National Championships too. The only thing I will say in LDR’s defense, is that there are hundreds of times more LDR participants than masters throwers. So at least the National Office can justify it by making the argument that it will get more distance runners to join USATF. The only defense of race walk is that almost no track meets offer those longer race walk distances.
I would love to see the number of RW and LDR National Championships greatly reduced, and not have the National Office bogged down with trying to support so many tiny events… and many of those tiny events are on the verge of cutting ties with the National Office anyway over rights fees and other nonsense.
As a long time “combined event” participant, Mary has asked me about her suggestion:.make it like the men’s pent!. My answer was: NO, I still would like to try it the old way, hurdles, HJ , et all.
I am trying to see her point, but I cannot agree!
Either way, we will not get more women to participate, unless the younger ones will get into the mentioned age group. Of course, when I heard 1500 m, the red flag
went up, but that’s like Anne says, most of us “dislike/hate” it.
Pentathlon, in the 1950 th ..(going back that far) ..had the 200 m as the longest race, it was a total sprinters event, and as much as I liked it, it was self-serving.
The change from the 200 m to the 800 m seemed the right way to go, like it or not!
Just for information, do I hear somebody wanting the change?
How about a high-jump pentathlon? Every competitor must take at least one jump using each of the five classic jumping techniques from history: scissors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hz7ZA35U5g), eastern cutoff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQitzJ_OtqY), western roll (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqrXaA5qzas), straddle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZF4nakRNF4&feature=related), and flop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Bq8UFuD30&NR=1). Best total height wins.
And no standing high jump?
It was an Olympic sport in the early years.
Cool! Standing HJ can be the tie-breaker.
Nice idea Ed. We do it at the start of the winter training but without measuring. The whole history of the event form both sides! That makes at least a decathlon.
Ditto to most of comments,except reference to …. ” for old women”
I appreciate all the efforts to encourage participation in track and field.
All things aside, the change in the pentathlon is not a way to achieve this.
Empire State Games offered this event for many years, except women contested the 800 meter. As I recall, the event seldom had more than two (2 )competitors. Multi-eventors( youth,open, master, have always been a snall group with special abilities.
I know that non of our track club ladies that do the Pent. want to see this change. The way it is structured now is a truer test of the best all around athlete.
Further to Christel’s and Mark’s comments, I agree that the pentathlon tests the best all round athlete
because the athlete has to compete in 5 different disciplines: hurdles, track, vertical jump, horizontal jump and throw. In my short experience in
track and field, I found that the majority of athletes concentrate on only one or two different events.
the idea is to rise the number of penta (boy’s and girl’s). you are afraid, or what? 🙂 specialization is death of evolution!
Mary Trotto withdrew her proposal today at the Anaheim annual meeting, citing confusion over WMA’s support of the event (listed as record but not contested) and other USATF concerns.
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