National Senior Games Assn. set to absorb USATF masters?
Ray Hoyt, director of national games and athlete relations for the National Senior Games Association, let the cat out of the bag yesterday. In the course of answering questions about 2010/2011 qualifying standards for the National Senior Olympics, he wrote me: “With regards to Track and Field, we are working with USATF masters on finalizing our long term agreement in the near future.” Further fueling suspicions that NSGA is engineering a friendly takeover of USATF Masters is this note I later got from USATF COO Mike McNees: “We’re having a conversation with Ray about building a cooperative relationship between the two organizations. We will hopefully be able to talk more definitively about that in the near future.” This could be the beginning of the end of masters track being a USATF stepchild. Stay tuned.
18 Responses
Personally, I hope that this doesn’t happen. I’m NOT an NSGA fan. #!$%#!^%!#$ What does that mean? It means that I just threw a damn fit. Jerry
discussion about “qualifying standards” and “cooperative relationship” hardly seems to mean “absorbing” USATF masters. Given the extremely limited menu of track and field events NSG offers – do you really think that NSG is going to make much difference for USATF masters. Will they be offering multi-events, steeplechase, distances longer than the 1500, indoor meets, annual meets, etc.
The last time I looked at a dictionary “cooperative relationship” did not mean “take over” which is what “absorb” implies.
It might be a good start for NSG to have their track meets sanctioned.
I was kind of thinking like Mary in that we see very little opportunity to compete in Senior Games and their volunteers never know what’s going on in T&F.
Neither quote gives any indication that there is anything related to a “merger” on the horizon.
Be careful what you wish for; if masters does strike out on its own, or with another organization, there’s hardly a guarantee that all those putting on events, opening doors in meets, officiating, and volunteering are simply going to transfer their support and expertise in following athletes to another organization.
If leaping to conclusions were a masters event, Ken you’d have a gold for sure! We are speaking with the NSG folks on how we can work cooperatively to benefit both, and I believe a lot of good will come of it for all participating athletes.
However – nobody is absorbing anyone else, in fact that notion hasn’t even come up. As you said, stay tuned.
Mike McNees
COO, USATF
I know there is talk about the top finishers in USATF Masters events being qualified for Senior Games, but that’s about all I’ve heard. I think “merger” is a little strong.
Folks, take a look at the blogs following the Palo Alto games.Seniors only athlets did NOT LIKE Masters ONLY athletes competing at the NSG and TAKING IT all. A good friend of mine and an ELITE SPRINTER out of Dallas(70-74),suggested maybe creating two division at the NSG,thus reg.Senior participants CAN GET SOME GOLD
Sure, make two divisions. I’ll compete in the USATF division. At USATF Masters Nationals in Oshkosh I took GOLD in long jump (out of 2). At Palo ALto I took sixth out of nine. Much tougher competition at NSG for my age group anyway.
I cringe when I hear rumors about takeovers by NSG or State Games of America because visions of hand-timed races, 800 meter waterfall starts, and throwing javelin off of grass runways pop into my head!!!
State Games of America – LOL – in my state- Bay State Games – only recently have they had two divisions for masters 40-49, and 50 and above. This is a vast improvement over the prior division- adults(apparently 18 and up) and masters 40+. I happened to look at the State Games of America meet in 2011 the other day as it will be held in San Diego and I have family living there.
The masters meet will be Friday Aug 5th – and the events will be held from 8 am (race walk) to 2:15
no running event longer than 1500m, no steeplechase, no multi-events, no pole vault.
I am not about to waste my time and money going to the State Games in San Diego unless I happen to be there for other reasons. The NSG schedules events over about 3 days – cramming in as much as possible – running sprint events back to back, etc – that is pretty pathetic as it is – but the State Games of America – gets it all done in 8 hours – one day.
State Games of America is basically a youth oriented organization – if the Bay State Games are an example of how it works elsewhere – the masters track meet is just a tag along because a few older athletes looking for a track meet in the summer have shown up.
But I think Ken is looking to stir things up on the blog – and he has succeeded – maybe beyond his wildest dreams! NSG – taking over the masters from USATF – right – and I am going to win millions at the next drawing of the power ball lottery.
I was lucky enough to have competed in both Oshkosh and Palo Alto. I did several events in each and was impressed with the organization and officiating of both. There were many more competitors in Palo Alto, from some of the all time greats like Phil Raschker, Kathy Bergen and Kathy Jager, to some beginners just learning to enjoy the sport. There were great competitors in Oshkosh, too, but maybe not as many. I, for one, am thrilled that we have both. Events don’t always run smoothly, but the organizers, officials and volunteers do an amazing job. Sometimes I wonder how they put up with us!
I will never forget the comments made by an open world class athlete who was once in charge of the senior games: He swore he would never do it again as he had never heard so much complaining in his life! If we athletes really want more meets in which to compete, we need to be more appreciative of the officials.
Plus, we threw the javelin on grass in both meets.
Always good to hear from the wonderfully articulate and thoroughly compassionate Nadine O’Connor, and Kim Williams adds a helpful perspective, as per usual.
A marriage that would combine the best of both worlds (seniors and masters) would certainly be appealing. Masters T&F has a low profile, and the numbers have just not been there. I just looked at the September 1993 edition of National Masters News — that year the national outdoor championships were held in Provo, Utah, hardly a convenient location for competitors from the East, Midwest, or even California (and the worlds that year no doubt siphoned off quite a few potential entrants).
Provo drew only 997 competitors; 16 years later, after a staggering increase in the US population (and increases in the tens of millions among those 30+) and tremendous efforts by Bob Weiner, Mark Cleary, and others to increase our public recognition, I doubt we got even that many in Oshkosh (and we drew fewer than 997 in Spokane in 2008). Partnering with National Senior Games would no doubt greatly raise the profile of masters T&F and increase the numbers by a factor of three or four.
The influence of the masters program would most likely result in a much broader range of events on the track (including steeplechase, hurdles, and 5,000) and, one presumes, better scheduling of events. It’s just a natural — masters and seniors working together. And the public thinks that the masters are seniors anyway. Drop the minimum age to 30, improve the keeping of records, and it’s all good.
I agree that combining the Senior Games and Master track meets could result in better participation and competition. However a “take over” by the NSG creates a serious problem – one beyond the multi-sport issue – and the NSG historic poor finances. That is the age issue. The NSG starts at age 50 – not at age 30. IF the NSG accepts track and field athletes at age 30 – then they would feel obligated or at least under pressure – to do the same for all of the other sports.
I can tell you from my one experience at the World Masters Games in Sydney last October – that managing a hord of 25,000 plus and maybe 25 sports is a gigantic undertaking that requires superb administrative skill and several years to organize. The folks in Sydney did an amazing job.
I cannot imagine the NSG having the time, money, and being able to round up the talent to do the same thing in the US every two years. State games would have to accept the younger competitors in all sports as well.
In MA, for example, the games seem to be just about on life support now – never mind expand to include many other teams and numbers of athletes, find suitable facilities etc – every year. The only state games that seems to manage to accomplish this is the Huntsman Games. Perhaps some other states may do this – but none that I am aware of on the east coast.
The other thing I would point out is that many of the track and field athletes who participate in the state and national senior games do not feel competent to take part in the National Masters Track and Field meets. Many see themselves as just having a good time and getting some exercise, catching up with friends -perhaps the term “social competitors” might be appropriate. They do not think of themselves as “qualified” to compete against those in the National Masters meets – even if they have better results in the NSG or state games.
I think it is a bit of pie in the sky to consider combining the two meets. Would the state senior games have to offer the steeplechase, the 5k on the track, hurdles, and multi-events? Or do we just give them up in order to “merge” because a sense that USATF does not appreciate masters? Does anyone really think that the NSG – which overseas multiple sports is going to give more time and attention to the track meet than to the other sports – many of which have more competitors?
re – disrespect for the officials – that is a separate issue that is not going to be solved by having the USATF masters join the National Senior Games. That is a matter of some competitors having inflated views of themselves and/or poor manners, and short tempers. And then there are the chronic whiners -who are never satisfied – regardless of who is putting on a meet. And I bet they cannot organize their way out of a paper bag or have never officiated at a track meet.
Did anyone read what Mike McNees wrote:
“If leaping to conclusions were a masters event, Ken you’d have a gold for sure! We are speaking with the NSG folks on how we can work cooperatively to benefit both, and I believe a lot of good will come of it for all participating athletes.
However – nobody is absorbing anyone else, in fact that notion hasn’t even come up.”
So let’s stop all discussion about anyone taking anyone over! It’s not even up for discussion!!
Jeez Jerry, there’s no harm in discussing “what ifs”, “pros and cons”, etc. There’s a little item called Freedom of Speech you may have heard of and I don’t think this constitutes hollering “FIRE!” in a crowded theatre, so lighten up.
I couldn’t agree more with Mary on this. Her statements and concerns are right on with what my own concerns.
1) NSG currently doesn’t include the steeple and other events that are on the “fray” but are much a part of track and field- this is a real concern
2) I can’t even begin to describe how thankful I am that Masters Track includes the 30-34 age group I’m in…Mary’s point that NSG starts at 50 creates a real potential problem
Is USATF Master’s Track & Field perfect? No but we need to be careful what we ask for.
Mary, thank you, thank you, thank you!
The leaders of USATF Masters should not negotiate a thing with Senior Olympics. USATF is the organization which serves masters by providing links with junior and open competitors, by staging the full range of events, by establishing memberships for individuals and clubs, by creating and establishing rules for athletes and officials, by supporting club, association, regional, national and international championships every season and every year and by providing insurance programs.
What can Senior Olympics do for track and field athletes in the next three years? Hold some fun events in various states and one meet in Houston? Secure sponsors for 15 to 20 different sports? Sell all of us on the glories of going to Houston?
I hope our USATF leaders allocate 110% of their time, energy and finances to develop first class outdoor masters USATF track and field championship meets in Sacramento, Cleveland and Lisle in the next three years as well as the full range of other USATF annual masters championships. If you build it, they will come.
Let Sr. Olympics focus on their very different agenda related to all kinds of sports.
That’s interesting news about the Senior Games and
the Masters’games.I am a participant in both but
since I live in the Dallas area,there are few
Masters’ events;USATF and the Dallas Masters each
have a meet in the summer.The Senior Games have
meets from March through August all over Texas.I
can’t travel the “world over” to compete.It seems
Masters’meets are held either on the East coast,the
West coast,the far North or anywhere but South and
we don’t have indoor facilities for winter.I’m not
exactly just a participant,I like to win and even
though I can’t compare with the great women who
participate in my age group at Masters,it would
be exciting to compete. I did make it to one
National Meet in Baton Rouge,La.a few years ago
and did medal some but I can’t say it was all that
friendly.The National Senior Games were also held
that next week in which I participated;probably a
bad idea since I arrived home totally exhausted after doing track,field and the triathlon.I’m
glad that we do have Senior games here;but
wish we had more opportunity to compete at Masters.
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