Mt. SAC Relays ditching several masters events, sked suggests
Nolan finishes WR 800 at 2011 Mt. SAC.
About Ken Stone
Ken has followed track as an athlete, writer and web-master since the late 1960s, and saw most sessions of track and field at the 1984 Los Angeles and 1996 Atlanta Olympics. He also attended the 1988, 1992, 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012 Trials, the last three as a blogger and Patch correspondent. [More...]
Ken Stone
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10 Responses
Thanks for digging into this. I know some master runners were hoping to run the 800m this year, and they also noticed the disagreement between the meet calendar and what’s listed on the USATF site.
The Masters Invitational Series could have a better balance between fast performances and filling the lanes on the track. I realize the need to have fast qualifying times, but this has historically led to few runners competing, with the exception of the races that are held in conjuction with the Olympic Trials. Albuquerque is a classic example. The qualifying standard was 2:03 for the 800m, and while 7 men entered, only 5 competed due to scratches. I know of a few 2:10 masters who would have made the trip, and while they would not have contended with the leaders, they would have more than adequately filled the field. 2:10 is not elite, but it’s pretty darn fast!
Why not treat this like other USATF championships?
1. Decide how many runners should be in the field, e.g. 8 or 12. Call this variable “N.”
2. Establish a tough standard (say 90% age-graded for a 45 year old) for automatic qualifiers
3. Establish a weaker standard (say 85% age-graded for M45) for provisional qualifiers
4. Declaration day is 2 weeks before the race. Not 1 day, not 3 days but 2 weeks. This gives everyone time to make final travel arrangements, and one generally knows by then whether he or she will be able to compete
5. Fastest N runners after the declaration are invited to race
6. Optionally, to inhibit last minute scratches, the Masters Invitational Event Coordinator has the option to disqualify last minute scratches from the remaining events in the calendar year. This basically means that if you commit and don’t show, you’d better have a good excuse since open lanes hurt the program.
Scott makes some great suggestions that should definitely be considered by the MIP.
Just checked the Mt. SAC schedule via the link in the above blog article and it appears now the listed Master’s Events are as follows:
100M
Hammer
110HH
So this suggests to me that the schedule is still fluid. Probably best to wait for Mark Cleary to weigh-in on the subject.
Mt. Sac added a few more relays Distance Medley and they have a few more para-olympic events-they were looking to cut time out of the scedule and we were the unlucky casualty. I will petition to get the 800m for Msters Men & Women back in for next year ( these were the only two events that were officially part of the Masters Invitational program the last several years. As far as standrds I look at what the top 15 to 20 athletes ran last year to set the standard which has worked very well.The Men’s field at the US Indoor Nationals was still considered a full field even with the scratches. It is the women’s fields that have been a bit tougher in this poor economy.I don’t use age grading for this program the standards are based on actual times. Anyway everybody thinks they have a better way and a more effective way to provide these elite Masters fields– I have been doing this for over 10 years and I have tried different approaches and have found what works and what doesn’t. The goal of the program is to fill a quality field-not fill a field with average performers just to get a full field–that has never been part of the mission. Sorry but 2:10 is not the caliber of 800m athlete that the US National meets need to be showcasing when we have about 20 guys or more that ran 2:05 or faster last year.
I understand that 2:10 is not the caliber of times that are run in a National meet, but these National meets are the goal meet for many master runners. I don’t think you can expect the same field in a race that is several months before or after indoor or outdoor championships, like Mt. Sac is. Add to that logistics of fitting another travel race into one’s work and family schedules, and you have an even smaller field.
I don’t know the answer, but I do know that only 8 American master men were sub 2:03 indoors last year, and two of them are injured. So would I pick 2:03 as a qualifying time for an indoor meet at a difficult travel destination where I want a full field? Probably not.
Sunday night, Mt. SAC Relays director and track coach Doug Todd sent me this note:
I am unaware of any Masters Shot put planned for the Relays this year.
Status for Masters Events is as follows: Regrettably, due in large part to empty lanes, and limited interest, along with the addition of new events, there is a need to make room in the 2012 schedule by reducing event offerings. My  hope is that  future planning and demonstrated serious interest from a larger number of participants may cause us to  re-think our position.  At this time the 2012 Mt. SAC Relays schedule is set and there is no possibility of any event additions at this late date.
Again the Men’s field was not the issue-it was the women’s field that was light and because of that I allowed one athlete that was slower then the standard to race. Just because only 8 men had run under 2:03 you also have to take into consideration there are 39 year olds turning 40 and then there are guys like Neil Fitzgerald that and a few others that may not have had an Indoor time last year, but can run under the standard at will-so again you must take into consideration the quality of the times the guys ran Outdoors last year and know that some of them that did not post an Indoor time last year are quite capable of running below the standard – it’s a mute point because we did get a quality field that was large enough-there are no absolutes you take calculated risks based on what is known about the athletes and a majority of the time it works out well–
That really is too bad. I always enjoyed running the 200m there, along with the other guys.
I’ve run this meet many times, it’s a great venue. It’s too bad that another opportunity for masters is gone.
Jim, I second your comment. Even though I have only run the event once, it was such a great opportunity, and to have Nolan come by me on the final corner last year and set a world record, was nothing short of inspirational. The announcer did a great job prepping the viewers, who, judging by the response when Nolan’s time was announced, really enjoyed the world record performance.
I was looking forward to puttting on a much better performance this year. Our club also has sub 2:00 and a 2:05 (40-45) guys that were ready to race so it is unfortunate that the opportunity is lost for 2012. Lets get on this early for 2013 to ensure we can again provide a respectable showing.
Ken
I see the master’s 110 hurdles on the schedule here:
http://www.mtsacrelays.com/divisions/mschedule.html
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