Oshkosh meet official vows a ‘great experience for you all’
Jason Fast
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Coach Jason Fast, assistant meet director of Oshkosh masters nationals, has graciously replied to my quickie Q&A. He couldn’t tell me when the detailed event-by-event timeline will be posted, but I’m guessing that it’s likely to be sometime today or tomorrow at the USATF schedule page. He also noted in a separate email: “(The) quarter-inch pyramid spike and Christmas tree spike-only rule will be strictly enforced by the clerks. No pins, needles or other types of spikes will be allowed, whether they are permanent or not.” Over at Carmel Papworth-Barnum’s site, she and hubby Larry have prepared a page on travel tips for Oshkosh-goers, including a list of restaurants. See it here.
Here’s my brutal interrogation of Jason:
Masterstrack.com: What’s your best count for number of entries at nationals?Jason Fast: We have 963 Americans with roughly 30-40 foreign competitorsI see you have three entrants in the M95-99 group and two in the 90-94. Are you making any special provisions for these older athletes?We will have a doctor at the meet all four days and an ambulance on site in case of any medical issues the competitors may have over the course of the four days. (Sidenote: I am very much looking forward to watching the 90+ runners compete as well as hopefully meeting a few of them and finding out their secret to eternal track and field life.)What kind of transportation will be provided on campus, if any, to help athletes get from lodging to the track and back?If you are in the dorms on campus, there will be a shuttle bus that will pick you up from the dorms and bring you to the track. The bus will begin picking up every morning 1.5 hours before the first event and run on a half-hour schedule. This bus will also bring you to the athletes social if you have a ticket to the social.A major issue in previous years has been lap counting in distance races. Are you confident U have enough counters ready?We will have a wealth of help from not only our track and field team but from the track and field teams from the local high schools. These are track people, so I’m confident in their abilities.This being your first masters nationals, what special challenges have you had to overcome?I’d say just answering all of the competitors questions. Hosting the NCAA meet, I would never get any emails from competitors asking various questions. It’s how I have spent a majority of my days lately. However, I really like interacting with the athletes. I have gotten to talk to some pretty interesting people and some end up having some pretty good stories to tell. If I had to do it all over again, I’d attempt to develop a FAQ page because a majority of the questions that I get are repeats.
What are your plans for the athletes’ banquet — menu and entertainment, etc.?The athletes banquet will be on July 11th. There will be a social hour from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m. and dinner will be served at 7. Following dinner will be an awards presentation for the Hall of Fame. Dinner will be a seared salmon and fillet; the bar will be open starting at 6 p.m. and the bar will close when the banquet ends at 10 p.m.Will you award ribbons for 4th, 5th and 6th — or just medals to the top three?We will have ribbons for 4th, 5th and 6th.Will you be breaking even or making any money on hosting these nationals?(Left blank)Who will the meet director be?Al (Ackerman) is the meet director and I am the assistant meet director. I’d also like to thank everyone in advance for taking part in this meet. Myself, Al Ackerman (athletic director), Daryl Sims (assistant AD), Kennan Timm (SID), John Zupanc (head men’s track and field coach), Pat Ebel (men’s and women’s throws coach), Ben Dorsey (men’s and women’s sprints and jumps coach, Deb Vercauteren (head women’s track and field coach) and Patrick Pretty (USATF WI president) have put in a lot of time and effort to make this a great experience for you all, and I hope it will be nothing short of a great meet. See you all in July!
It’s also worth noting that University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh came to USATF’s rescue on short notice when the original meet site — Clermont, Florida — bonked and had to drop out of the deck. (Remember the petition against the site?)
Be thankful. We’re facing high temps in the low 80s at Oshkosh. In central Florida, the forecast for early July shows high temps in the 90s with a good chance of showers.
29 Responses
The schedule is posted.
Jason has been doing a great job to this point and will continue to do an excellent job as we move through the meet. Some questions that relate to me (as an announcer) and to a variety of competitors staying at the dorms:*
1. When will breakfast be open for those in the dorms? (Note that Orono made a huge error in 2007 by opening up breakfast just 30 minutes before the first event.)
2. When will the cafeteria close for evening meals? (Note that on some days the meet runs well past the normal closing time for a college cafeteria.)
3. For those who can’t eat in the cafeteria in the evening because they are still at the meet, are there restaurants within 1000 meters of the dorms that offer reasonable fare?
4. What is the recommended method for getting from the Appleton airport to the dorms? How about for getting from the dorms to the airport on Monday (July 13)?
* If Jason can’t answer these questions here I will e-mail him separately.
Good thing I hadn’t booked the hotels yet. My schedule hunches were completely wrong.
Whatever happened to the free shuttle from the Appleton Airport to the dorms???? It was all a part of this bid to take on Nationals and now they are not offering it. I remember reading this in the initial write up. Emailed Jason and he gave me cab and rental car options.
Has anyone else noticed that in the detailed schedule there are no mens’ shot put events scheduled? I sent an email to see what happened to these events or what they plan on doing, but I thought I’d point that out to anyone who was interested.
Your hunches about the steeple times were right on there, PT. 12:00pm for the 50-59 and 12:10pm for the 30-49. Again, impossible for the 50-59 crew to be done and off the track in 10 minutes as you couldn’t even do that if this was the Olympics. Looks like only one entrant in the entire field of men’s 3000m steeplers has a shot at even going under 10 minutes. However, at least they give 30 minutes for the two races combined. Just wish they put down 12:15pm for the second race as that’s when it will be.
16 people in that 30-49 race which is a bit much truthfully. Field should really be maxed out at 12 and 10 is more preferable. This 3 races instead of 2 would have worked out better for everyone. Oh well…
Yes, Mellow Johnny, the old guy (PT) knows a thing or two about schedules. Yes, 16 in the steeple seems like quite a few, and you may be joined by a couple of Canadians, or possibly someone from the Netherland Antilles (I have no idea of which events the “non-U.S.” have entered).
One thing that really caught my eye was the 5000 for women under age 50. We have at least 22 women in this group, including one who will run with a guide, and yet they are all going in a single section (that means 23, counting the guide, if there are no scratches). Wow!
Another notable race is the W45 400. There are 10 Americans and, as you know so well, Mellow Johnny, Oshkosh has 9 lanes. Those 10 Americans are being asked to come out to Oshkosh a day early (arrive Wed., compete Thursday) to run a trial that has >50% chance of never being held.
If it is held, and there are no foreign athletes, we will be running 10 women to eliminate 1. Now tell me, Mellow Johnny, when did you ever see a 400 trial in open, collegiate, or high school that was conducted to eliminate a single person? You know what I think, Mellow Johnny. You should say right now there is no trial, and on the 20% (or so)chance there are no scratches you run a 2-section final on time on Friday (with the faster runners in section II). But that’s not the way it’s done in masters.
SORRY FOR THE CAPS… LOWERCASE DIDN’T GET ANYONE’S ATTENTION.
THERE ARE NO SHOT PUT EVENTS FOR THE MEN….. I EMAILED JASON FAST ABOUT THIS AND HE SAID “SORRY I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SCHEDULE.” WELL TELL ME WHO IS SO I CAN TALK TO THEM AND ASK WHY THERE ISN’T ONE SHOT PUT EVENT LISTED FOR THE MEN.
Hi, coach
Gary Snyder, our national chair, is likely on the Games Committee, which oversees nationals. He can be reached at: garysnyder@att.net
Thanks Ken. It’s my first National Championships and I’m trying to shore up travel and housing. If I can come a day later than I thought and save some money I’ll obviously do that. Also it just seems weird that there wasn’t a single mens’ category in the shot put, not just my age category. Again thanks for the information hope to see everyone at nationals.
As of 5 minutes ago when I looked the men’s shot is on the posted schedule; all are on Thursday with the youngest group at about 4 pm.
They weren’t on there last night or early this morning but as you stated yes they are on there now. Gary emailed me and said that they would be posted by noon today and so they are. Thanks everyone for the information and help. Thanks to Ken for leading me in the right direction as to who to contact and thanks to Gary for responding and correcting the problem so quickly. Looking forward to competing in my first national meet and having fun meeting new people. Thanks again.
PT-
In every section of that situation I’ve seen at all levels, rather than running to eliminate one person, they would run a timed final in two sections when the finals were supposed to be one. No one would run by themselves, however. So typically, given that situation where you have a 9-lane track and 10 competitors, what would generally be done is a timed final with the split being 7 and 3 or 8 and 2 (slowest seed times being the smaller number of course).
If the games committee is experienced and smart, they would make that split wherever the biggest gaps in time were.
So, if the 7 fastest runners were all around 1:12 and the 8th fastest runner was at 1:15, then that’s where the split would be.
Yeah, having people show up and run an extra round is not generally acceptable to eliminate one runner. It’s too bad that Masters does things differently in that regard.
Sorry, supposed to be “when finals were supposed to be RUN”—too early in the morning here on the Left Coast during the summer for a schoolteacher…
Thank you for your comments about the situation I have described, Mellow Johnny (holding a trial to eliminate one runner). Unfortunately, that’s the way things are. And note also that masters T&F has special circumstances that also argue against holding of a trial to eliminate one person:
1. Almost all athletes pay their own way, and thus having them a day before they otherwise would has a financial cost.
2. In most cases in masters (I would guess from my 32.5 years of experience) where there are 10 competitors you get at least 1 scratch, resulting in a rollover. Thus, in most cases the trial becomes a “phantom.”
3. Unlike college and high school, there is a huge spread in ability in masters, not only in this event but in all others. Trials are useful for separating people who are closely matched, but one doubts their efficacy when there is a big spread.
4. Some masters will be hurt in the trials and will not come back for the final.
I have tried for reform in this and other areas, Mellow Johnny, but all my efforts have been for naught. Maybe, as a young buck, you will have some success in the future. Still, I am glad to see that we absolutely concur on one thing: You do not run trials to eliminate one person.
What are the arguements FOR holding a trial to eliminate ONE runner at masters meets?
It has almost happened in my events several times.
Well, Courtland, because no one else offered a rationale for running a trial on Thursday (July 9) at Oshkosh to eliminate one runner from the W45 400 (or, for that matter, to eliminate just one runner in any masters race), I will give it a try.
I would go with the 5% rule. Example: A runner from down your way who went to Skyline HS and Baylor University, you may have heard of him, once ran a 43.18 in the 400. You probably guessed — I am speaking of Michael Johnson. Five percent above 43.18 is 45.34; thus, if you had nine other men in the 400 who could run 45.34 or better you might have been able to justify a trial (of those 10 men).
In the case we have been discussing for Oshkosh, only 4 of the 10 women have posted a time. The best time is 57.80, and the 4th time is 1:11.90. Six of the women, as indicated, posted NT (although one of these six is an accomplished sprinter). I can say with considerable understatement that the 5% rule does not apply here. Thus, I would go with a 2-section final on Friday.
Another argument is that we don’t want sectioned finals. But we have already gone with sectioned finals elsewhere, both indoors and out. For example, we run sectioned finals for all events of 400 or longer in the indoors. And sectioned finals provide, in many cases, much more competitive races (and, of course, eliminate having to run so many trials).
My bet is that the meals hours will be such that those competing first thing in the morning will have to do so either with full stomachs – having to eat and run (and maybe upchuck too) – or without any food at all. That is nothing new – I will pack my stash of granola bars and a water heater for instant coffee (ugh) – and my other events start around noonish – so there will be no lunch either. As by the time my event is over and I have cooled down – and watched others – lunch is over – especially if one has to take the shuttle back to the dorm.
As for the places to eat withint 1000m of the dorm – ha ha – Peter you do have a sense of humor – I bet there is NOTHING except for vending machines with either stale junk left from the school year or empty.
OTOH – I might be pleasantly surprised – so Oshkosh – surprise me please.
I will be one of those in the dorm without a car – looking for the bus or taxi to get off campus. Car rental in Appleton is very expensive – as it is at most small airports. Not enough business to attract non-franchise rental outfits nor rent a wreck – my favorite rental outfit. That is not the fault of the university but it makes it pretty hard on those of us who are not running ponzi schemes and have other people’s money to spend.
IF UW Oshkosh is aways out of the city itself -ala U Maine Orono – the carless are pretty much trapped on campus.
Posting the final schedule so late results in many of us hanging around until Monday to leave- as I look at the schedule- a mid afternoon flight would have been possible – but at this late date it is not possible to make a change without paying more for the change fee than for the flight itself.
I would like to know why the masters champions are not used to go to finlin for the world games like the national champions do not takeing away from some runners that make it there on there own,IT would be nice for the usatf to send masters runners to other countrys to compete, it only my idea it would be nice
Jason Fast tells me that USATF will require you to show up to declare for events on Thursday even if there are not enough entries to run a 400 or 800 prelim in that age group. I was asking specifically about W50 400 and W50 800. He said this is the procedure Sandy Pashkin wants to follow. WOW ! Is this how it’s always been done ? Has anyone been told differently ?
We really need to eliminate the need for 800 prelims in the future…
Chuck, on your behalf (and on behalf of the W50 runners), I will immediately e-mail Gary Snyder and Jason Fast on this. The W50 track competitors have no trials listed on the schedule for Thursday, and thus they don’t need to be there. Is there a misunderstanding here?
I will also e-mail Ken Stone about this, as this is a critical issue.
On your larger point, of course there should never be trials in the 800, but that is a point on which masters T&F has never budged. It means getting to the meet two days early for an unnecessary trial. In most cases it is unnecessary because it rolls over to a final (on Saturday); when it doesn’t roll over it is unnecessary because we have too big a spread in abilities (the slower runners can’t challenge tha faster ones).
Pete,
Thanks. I thought it odd but perhaps I was not clear with Jason that there are already less than 13 in the W50 800 and less than 9 in the W50 400. I know in the case of M40 800’s , there are more than 12 so they would have to show (even though you and I both know scratches may cause a rollover).
Thanks,Chuck:
As you know so well, 800s have been a real thorn in the side of our masters runners (the trials, that is). They usually roll over, meaning people have to get there 2 days early for a phantom. When they don’t roll over, they sometimes result in injury, leaving good runners out of the file. Furthermore, many people (an unknown no., of course) do not sign up for the 800 because they can’t get away from work/can’t afford the extra 2 days of hotel. If we had just a final on Saturday they would show up.
But as noted above, this is an area on which masters T&F won’t budge.
I’m glad to be in M50 this year. Seems that’s where the action is. No rollovers there !
Of note is that fact that the women’s final of the 800 yesterday at the USATF National Champs had 9 runners due to a protest and it wasn’t a problem…sigh. Requiring people to show up for nothing two days early is a waste of time for everyone and certainly a waste of money for the competitors when they already pay their own way.
Well since the price was going up and the rooms were getting booked I had to plan before the schedule came out. I couldn’t get any answers except wait for the schedule. I will be out there just in time to run a trail in the 400 and/or 800 but barely. If I have to I would come from the airport dressed and ready to go. I would run only what I have to to make it thru.
If you are staying at one of the hotels they do have free airport shuttles so thats what I am doing. I will hitch a ride with a friend to the track.
On another note..anyone interested in a W50 4 X 800? I am hanging around long enough to run one if there is interest. I think we could run a good time.
Well, Cheryl, don’t rush. I don’t see any trials for W50 on the schedule, and thus you have made the finals (if you declare for those races on the days they are run).
My event is first on Thursday. Packet pickup begins at 6:30 and my gun is at 7:30. I requested packet pickup on Wednesday and was told that it begins on Thursday, period. I’m an early riser so I’ll be there early. My 78 year old frame needs a long warmup.
no packet pickup on Wed – they must be out of their freeking minds. The first 5k starts at 7:30 and the next at 8:15. We have to declare an hour before the race – yet we have NO NUMBERS – and cannot get them until 6:30 and NOT EVERYONE will be able to be first in line and then run around looking for the declaration sheets.
What on earth are they thinking – that we will walk out to the track (what is it a mile and 1/2 from the dorm – and I bet the shuttle does not start until 8 am) without breakfast – to get there by 6 to 6:30 to pick up the packet and sign in for the first event. Next we will be told that we MUST declare the night before – but wait – we cannot because there is no packet pick up the night before and no declarations the night before the first day of the meet. No one will be around on Wed because it seems that the meet director assumes Nothing happens until Thursday.
And I am betting we will be hanging around waiting for the volunteers who hand out the packets to turn up and get organized and start handing out the packets to folks who do not have any event until 10 am crowd around the table making those who run at 7:30 and 8:15 wait until too late to get to the track to run.
And – the packet pick up will be in some place remote from the track. Then we can run to the track – and that will be the “warm up”- but we will not make it in time to get hip numbers etc -(Or no hip numbers – no lap counters!!!)
The older men will get the worst of this stupidity- usually the older women go first – so thanks guys for taking the heat on this one.
Already it is looking as if this meet will be one of those where they are working out the kinks on the last day – and so sorry – but yada yada yada.
As much as I appreciate Oshkosh stepping in to take over from the disaster called Clermont, FL -this nonsense about the packet pickup starting at 6:30 on Thursday indicates a lack of understanding that if the first event STARTS at 7:30 – and many are coming from out of town the day before – they just might try to be a little be more accomodating.
There will be too many turning up to get packets and anxious about declaring (and missing the declaration time- unable to find the sheets – unable to find the place to get the hip numbers until too late. And if the officials decide to delay to allow all the older men to get their numbers and hip numbers – start the first race LATE – it makes the rest of the day run late.
Not to mention it makes a lot of older athletes pretty darn mad. And if they dq those who do not manage to declare on time and get hip numbers on time —— enough said –
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