Pizza hires ‘Johnnie Cochran’ of athlete lawyers, seeks funding
Greg Pizza hired Howard Jacobs, who helped Marion Jones beat an EPO rap in 2006.
About Ken Stone
Ken has followed track as an athlete, writer and web-master since the late 1960s, and saw most sessions of track and field at the 1984 Los Angeles and 1996 Atlanta Olympics. He also attended the 1988, 1992, 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012 Trials, the last three as a blogger and Patch correspondent. [More...]
Ken Stone
-
34 Responses
Greg’s hearing should help crystallize the issues involved in HRT for Masters and move the matter from controversy to precedent. No matter what the outcome of his hearing, Greg should be praised for spotlighting this issue so the matter can be put to rest once and for all.
I can see it now…..”If the condom does not fit, you must aquit”
Just a joke all….life is short Reaearch shows that laughing hard and long producers HGH naturally….hahahhaha
Sully
Maturing athletes… We will set a fine example for our children. Why does the USATF keep us around?
I don’t know if touting the fact that a lawyer “helped Marion Jones beat an EPO rap in 2006” is a badge of honor or an indictment. This is a site where I assume all parties are striving for a drug-free sport. Marion Jones, while a tragic figure, is not exactly a role-model for running clean. Extending her drug-enhanced career may qualify Mr. Jacobs as a courtroom genius in lawyer circles, but I don’t think that Greg Pizza is looking for that kind of success. I would assume he is not looking to get out of his suspension but instead prove that his suspension is unwarranted and ridiculous. In my mind that’s a big difference. I wish him success taking on USATF, which is one big clown show….
Quoting Nick Berra; “I wish him success taking on USATF, which is one big clown show….” I agree 100%
Ken writes: ‘Greg PIE-zah tells me: “This is a fight for the community of masters athletes….”‘
Sorry it is not. Count me out for a start.
As long as the outcome reflects medical opinions and doesn’t go beyond the need for HRT for health benefits then I am for it. There does need to be a penalty for those who use testosterone simply to boost their performance.
There must be a declaration from a doctor that states that a person’s health will suffer without the HRT therapy.
I wish Greg well in his quest as clearly the system may not apply well to masters athletes but I would have more sympathy about his suspension had he not waited until he got caught before taking up the cry about PEDs. From reading the original Times article about his suspension, it still sounds like Greg knew that HRT therapy was not allowed but decided that it was ok in his case. Maybe he assumed that since drug tests were pretty rare that he would not get tested.
Mike, excellent job of summing up the situation without actually insulting someone. One of our recent commenters on this situation could take lessons from you. Can’t give a name because he did not give one.
It occurred to me that the new Most Improved Performance Award might be a surreptitious way to spot people taking PED’s.
Rick,
I was not trying to be insulting. Greg has been very open about his HRT therapy and I am sure that Greg did what he thought was right in this situation. Hopefully, it will prompt a new look at drug testing for masters.
My question would be if HRT is allowed in the future, to what extent would masters athletes across the board seek this course of action? When one opens the door of one natural supplement where does it stop? Would HRT be allowed just for 35 and up? How about a male in his late 20’s who’s a bit lower than average in terms of his testosterone compared to other 20 somethings? Be ready to open Pandora’s Box. One either has to allow a wide range of “supplement” boosters or stand firm with the status quo.
Mike
I was serious. I don’t think you were either. I meant that literally. I also agree with what you said about Greg.
There should be provable data from lab work that would show if Piazza was below the normal range – below 250 ng/dL. If he can’t prove that, he has no case. If he can prove that, he may still have no case.
If normal is 280-1100ng/dL should we all take HRT to get to the 1100 limit? Would that have a positive effect on performance? Just asking.
Yes there needs to be a limit for those who are using HRT. It should be somewhere in the lower half of the accepted normal range or whatever is enough to prevent an unhealthy condition. Doctors can monitor this easily if we know what is acceptable.
Derek brings up an interesting point (#16 comment).
We need a doctor to explain this exact point for all of us. Is it true that anyone being able to train with, by adding additional testosterone than what any person currently has, through injections or otherwise likely to improve their performance because of the beneficial side effects of the drug?
(More muscle, body fat reduction, improved lean mass, faster recovery from workouts)
In other words, anybody with low NORMAL range who injects it up to high NORMAL range…is it likely their ability to train, grow muscle, etc. is going to possibly improve substantially? If doctors concur that yes, it is true for nearly everyone that they will become physically stronger and improve…and the masters community concurs that performances do improve merely from adding testosterone from a low normal up to a high normal range, which is what I have read many people are saying is ok to do….then what is the solution here?
Already discussing Testosterone levels for masters? While you are at it, what do you suggest for me M75? Hope it’s a lot. I could use it.
Fear and loathing. Is anyone really aware of the implications of this situation? We have here a natural alliance of drug cheats, drug lawyers, drug liberals, unwitting masters recreational athletes plus our anti-masters lobby, and the powerful health supplements industry. There is money involved. Big money. Well, I wish USATF Masters good luck. Otherwise any relaxation of the Testosterone rules for masters will set a precedent that will effectively finish off competitive masters athletics for all of us.
A level playing field is still just that, a level playing field. No one is sanctioning uncontrolled use of these substances. Even doctors will not sanction excesses in this area. It is up to the powers that be to determine what is acceptable and what is best for the health of the athletes and also their well being. I don’t understand how this will finish off masters athletics. On the contrary it might just keep us in the game longer. It can still be fair as long as controls are set to keep this within acceptable limits. Doctors know what is normal and doctors should be consulted in this matter before any changes are made. Why can’t we find a common ground between what is right and healthy for the individual and at the same time fair for all involved?
Steve, we surely must not allow the use of HRT to raise levels to high normal. I would be in favor of only allowing those with low testosterone to bring it up to a level that would reverse the adverse side effects of low testosterone. There must be a limit set, I just don’t think that limit is status quo. By the way Ken, you have sure generated a lot of activity on your site lately. As for me this may be the only way I can keep in touch with the masters community this year and I guess that is why I have been so verbal. I will miss most of this year with some health problems but I am wishing all of you a very healthy and productive season.
There has been so much discussion about this issue that I started reading up on testosterone therapy and after looking at some of the available literature, there are a lot of variables to consider in setting appropriate levels and some significant potential side affects. I am an engineer and worked briefly in a totally different area of medical research and this is way out of my area of expertise. Is anyone in this discussion a medical doctor or does related medical research and might be able to provide answers?
Noticed that the usada website has an “ask the scientist a question” section ….
Has anyone tried sending the scientist a question yet? Anyone received an answer back?
I believe it would be fair and manageable to accept the use of testosterone supplements to bring one’s level to no more than X, where X is determined to be in the lower half of the normal range for a given age. Such individuals would have to be under a doctor’s care and then would be required to declare and be tested – and if they were wise, would also get tested regularly out-of-competition to be sure they were in the appropriate range to compete. Of course those who had higher natural levels would be fine. This would provide the most “level playing field” we could hope for – those who are naturally fortunate would not have an advantage over those with treatable medical illnesses, but those receiving treatment would be limited to getting back to normal, not using that as a way to exceed what could be achieved if they were healthy.
It should also be possible for someone who wanted to achieve a higher level using a supplement for whatever reason to come to the meets and compete alongside the rest of us, but they would have to declare in advance and would not be eligible for awards or record recognition.
Penalties, such as a long-term ban, should be reserved for those who use a supplement but try to hide it – when they are found out, they should still be banned.
The process should also be altered for some of the other banned medications that in our population are not performance-enhancing, so that TUEs would be more readily granted for people just trying to stay healthy.
The most uninformed comment made on these posts was “whatever your level is, that’s what is normal for you.” Would you say that to a diabetic about their insulin level?
We need to work this through the WADA process so that our athletes can compete in international events without bringing sanctions onto all US athletes, such as might happen to the Russians at the Olympics. Doing so will not be easy, and as many of you have pointed out, the devil will be in the details, but it is entirely feasible to do. The biggest irony is that if we can make this change, some of those most opposed to it now will stand to benefit in the long run. And many more will benefit. The chance that someone will be beaten out by a cheater will always be there, but we should not punish all those who have been good athletes and colleagues for so many years just to avoid the off chance that we might not get a medal here or there. Life is too short.
Still waiting to hear from someone with actual medical knowledge [like a doctor]. All we are getting is opinions and vague talk about a “level playing field”. I have sleep apnea and one of the side effects of testosterone therapy is increased sleep apnea so it is doubtful that my doctor would give the ok. Could I then use some other PED so I could be on that “level playing field”?
Mike, I am a doctor. I am not a specialist in sports medicine or sleep apnea. Your doctor should treat your sleep apnea in whatever way is the best medical care. For testosterone deficiency, it’s testosterone. For sleep apnea, it is unlikely to be a PED. Then, that’s the hand we are dealt. I have a heart block, so I am a lousy distance runner – that’s not a level playing field for me. But I was born with a lot of fast-twitch muscle, so I am quicker than most – that’s not a level playing field either. The point of seeking a “level playing field” is not to make everyone physically equal. It is to try to let everyone be as healthy as possible when they do compete – then the winner can win because of good genes and hard work and sometimes just dumb luck, but not because the guy in the next lane has a medical illness that could be treated properly AND still compete if our rules were adapted for masters athletes, to recognize that our situation is different from that of the elite young stud.
Masters track should have the same rules as every other level. Otherwise masters won’t get the credit they deserve. “Yeah, he ran great but they cheat so it is meaningless.” I’m not seeing any problem with the TUE system and allowing synthetic testosterone could open up a big, fat can of worms. It can easily be abused, and can be dangerous for one’s health especially if abused. It seems as though those who need meds are getting TUES and nobody is going to have a problem with athletes using the meds they need for health and survival. I don’t see testosterone being in the same category at all as the meds currently allowed with a TUE. Keep the sport clean, the rewards are greater, the satisfaction greater and the accolades are greater. Look at the younger athletes who win big races like the top marathons then are caught cheating. It’s not only as though they accomplished nothing but are looked at as being fools.
Testosterone supplementation does not belong in any legitimate sport. This granddaddy of all PEDs has been at the root of more cheating than any other method for the past half-century. The reality is that:
1) Testosterone use in sport is tested by testosterone’s ratio to epitestosterone, not by its own measured level in the blood, meaning anyone allowed to use it would be able to abuse it (“normal” ratio is 1:1, but it’s not a fail until it reaches 4:1).
2) There is no such thing as testosterone supplementation that isn’t performance-enhancing. I’ve interviewed (for several articles) the top sports endocrinologists in the country on this. The ability to control the timing of testosterone release gives the person supplementing with testosterone an advantage over someone with similar levels who can’t control that release (e.g., natural testosterone levels drop after a long hard run, leaving the athlete in a catabolic state–how much nicer to control release to put you in an anabolic, or muscle-building, state instead).
3) There is no analogous relationship between someone whose knees go bad and someone whose testosterone levels drop. The person with bad knees can never get back good knees. Testosterone supplementation can bring you right back to speed.
4) Testosterone use works. Used to boost performance, it really boosts performance. Allowing it in masters competitions would ensure that no record would ever be set by a non-PED user again. Sorry, but if nothing else, the abuse on the elite/open level, and in all other sports, and in (let’s be honest) masters competition itself makes clear that there are a lot of people out there who are willing to cheat. These people would jump on the testosterone bandwagon, and no one who didn’t use it would be able to compete on their level (in open competition, PEDs improve performance by about 5%; in masters, it’s probably a lot more due to naturally declining levels of some hormones).
5) Masters competition would become an absolute joke in the sporting world. Instead of our performances being viewed as inspiring, the sport would be viewed as the playground for deluded oldsters pretending to be young by cheating.
6) Testosterone supplementation is dangerous. It speeds the development of prostate cancer and has been linked to increases in stroke and heart attacks, among others.
Look, the truth is that I’m very sympathetic to the medical reality for many masters athletes, and I think the TUE process definitely needs to be overhauled for many situations. But testosterone isn’t one of them. And that breaks my heart to say when it comes to some of the guys in our sport who are hurt by low-T. (FYI, I’m all for allowing non-scoring/non-record-producing competition for these athletes–with some stipulation that a majority of spots in any national “finals” be reserved for athletes not using T.)
Finally, I know what it’s like to see one’s ability to compete curtailed by an aging/medical condition. In fact, I announced to my clubmates almost exactly one year ago today that I was quitting the sport myself because I could no longer tolerate the pain I’d been experiencing for 6 years from Achilles bursitis–actually an Achilles insertion injury that was triggering the bursitis. I could no longer do distance runs without stopping every mile or two to let the pain subside, couldn’t train on the track at all, couldn’t run hills or race anywhere near the level I had previously. So since I couldn’t train or race, I figured I was done. It never occurred to me that I should be able to take HGH–another PED–to heal the injury and run well again. Because that would be cheating. I’m lucky. I spent most of the past year experimenting with a rehab program to rebuild the Achilles insertion point, and miraculously it worked and I can run again–for now. But if the condition returns, I won’t turn to PEDs. I’ll accept that if a sport is to be considered competitive, it has to have rules–and one of those rules has to be that we don’t engage in the dangerous practice of hormone manipulation.
I appreciate and support Pete’s (#28)post with the following comment: For some of our master’s athletes making a final at a national masters championship meet in an event is also a goal even if they do not medal. But foreign masters athletes are already allowed to displace US athletes (although US Athletes still receive 1-2-3 place medals), which is really unfair when the foreign athlete’s country bars US masters competitors. Adding in master’s athletes using “T” (even without the award of medals or records) could mean that only a few lanes of a final would be US “qualified for medals” athletes and US athletes who might have qualified in the US 5-8 slots, might be sitting on the sidelines.
I’d promote Pete’s comment at #28 to a post on the front page. He nails it.
4) Testosterone use works.
5) Masters competition would become an absolute joke
Personally, I’m ok with aging and doing my best.
Comment number 28, Pete Magill nails every aspect of why PED use is banned in the first place. Allowing users to compete straight up against those who cannot or will not use PED’s changes the meaning of sport itself in my opinion.
A few years ago I remember an argument in support of Lance Armstrong’s use is that in bicycle racing, supposedly, “everyone was doing it”. If it becomes the belief of those participating in our sport or anyone considering joining our sport, that you have to do drugs to be competitive, we will be finished for good.
David (#29) …I agree….it is not just the medal winners who need to be considered. I have been in that position of “just aiming to make the final” myself. I enjoy the company and competition from athletes from other nations….as long as there are not too many US-displacements. Folks who declared T-supps and raced would/could displace non-T-users….not fair! Are the folks who are advocating for T-use with declaration suggesting Nationals would increase the number of events? Would this mean that M55 4×100 relays would be run: club-non-T, non-club-non-T, club-T, non-club-T? Maybe M65-400m-T & 400m-non-T? Would M55 100m heats be run separately for T and non-T athletes?
Wall Street Journal mentions Pizza case in a story about recreational TUE and USADA softening on http://www.wsj.com/articles/prescription-steroids-get-a-quiet-exemption-1461365753
Kind of a big story.
Leave a Reply