Should Marion Jones be welcomed to compete at masters meets?
Marion Jones
About Ken Stone
Ken has followed track as an athlete, writer and web-master since the late 1960s, and saw most sessions of track and field at the 1984 Los Angeles and 1996 Atlanta Olympics. He also attended the 1988, 1992, 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012 Trials, the last three as a blogger and Patch correspondent. [More...]
Ken Stone
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30 Responses
Potentially provocative topic, Ken. I note that many of the recent postings have produced few comments, but this one might be different. I believe, however, that the chances of seeing Marion Jones run next winter in Albuquerque at the indoor masters nationals or in Berea at the outdoor masters nationals (or even the Worlds in Sacramento) are very slim.
In fact, I would place the odds at about the same level as the chances that VP Joseph Biden will run in the M65 100-meter dash at the Penn Relays next year. So…I will ask two questions:
(1) When will the Albuquerque meet be held? It’s only about 10 months away, but I don’t see any listing of the dates.
(2) When will the Berea meet be held? This is important because of potential conflicts with the Worlds.
Peter asks good questions – I heard a rumor (got to love rumors- the spice of life) – that the Albuquerque meet will not be held –
but back to your question about maid Marion. I voted no but – IF she is willing to be drug tested at meets and randomly out of meets at her own expense – sure – let her back in. Of course I have a bias – I am NOT in her age group. I doubt that we will see her at our national meets or international meets either – but who knows what she will do next.
As for the “criminals” who run amongst us – how many of them have a history of running while on dope and denying it. Of course one could say that we also have many who are dopes who run. But that is not a criminal offense.
she has nothing to prove running masters..
rarely do you find former elites competing in masters, sad but true..
Thank you, Mary. And thank you for pointing out the rumor about Albuquerque. People are already planning (in a very preliminary way, of course) for 2011. For example, I looked up Berea, Ohio, this morning and found that it is only 6 hours and 5 minutes by car from where I live in Fairfax, Virginia. I could drive there (if someone asks me to help with the meet).
As for Albuquerque, I heard from a very good source that the meet might not take place. I am glad, Mary, that you aired that rumor. You will recall, I am sure, that Clermont, Florida, was supposed to be our outdoor site for 2009. Then there were rumors that it might not be held there, and the next thing you know we were out in Oshkosh with “Big Al,” as you called him.
So…for the sake of those who are planning their 2011 schedules it would be good to know (a) Is Albuquerque still on? (b) What are the dates? (c) What is the host hotel?
The judge should “order” Marion to run Masters Track meets for further punishment. “I hereby sentence you to languish in irrelevance and anonimity for the rest of your days as a Masters Track Athlete! (bang the gavel) Marion’s lawyer objects on the grounds of “cruel and unusual punishment”. But serously-I am a proud Masters Track athlete. This was my feeble attempt at humor.
The Albuquerque Convention Center, where the meet is SCHEDULED to be held, has a hotel that is basically attached to it. In the event of high-altitude snowfall, athletes staying at the hotel would only be exposed to the elements for roughly 25 meters while crossing one street. I stayed there in 2007 and from what I remember, the rates are pretty reasonable compared to Boston.
In the international world of Track and Field, the penalty for drug violation is suspension for a period of time after which you are allowed to return and compete. In the Democratic,Republic of the United States, If you are convicted of committing a crime, you pay your dept to society by doing time in prison after which you are released back into society as a full citizen. Marion has experienced both plus shame and humiliation.
Inciting Public Opinion can be hurtful as it overlooks the law and dwells on if the mob thinks she is regretful enough or has suffered enough or deserves more humiliation.
Personal Opinion, however, allows you the privilege to ignore her or voice your opinion to her face if you should see her on the track.
Well… yah… there’s the whole morality thing. But I have to admit I would love to see her in a race where I could stand right near the track and watch.
And Paul Brown has a point. It would be a form of punishment for a former star to do masters track. She can run some kind of record and go home to find there’s no mention of the meet in her hometown paper but a front page story about (insert a sport you hate here).
It must have been a slow news day in San Diego, Ken. I’m totally with you, Nolan. Ms. Jones is part of our society with all the rights of a citizen. Ken’s question makes no sense. But Nolan, I have my doubts about ignoring her. A while back, I warmed up in the lane right next to her. It simply is impossible to ignore a woman that beautiful and an athlete that gifted!
To Paul Brown. Not feeble at all. Made me laugh out loud. Thanks.
I would also agree with Nolan. This country has generally provided a second chance, and although some times that has not been poplular, it is one thing that differentiates us from a number of other countries. I find it strange you posed the question “Should we let her?” as if “we” are either a governing body or the judges of whether or not she has adequately admitted to her transgressions, or apologized enough. If the question was posed to elicit opinions, then you have succeeded. If the question was posed because you were serious, then I would only ask, “Are you serious?”
What do you mean, “should WE let her????” If you try to bar her from competing, you will (and rightfully should) be slapped with a hefty discrimination lawsuit.
That’s like trying to legally bar Tiger Woods from returning to competition in the PGA. You can boo these athletes and criticize them all you want, BUT you have NO LEGAL RIGHT to even think about sanctioning them.
Who made YOU God of the sport, to determine who should be allowed to participate??? What gives YOU absolute authority to enforce your beliefs on the entire sport? The question itself is absurd at face value. She can do whatever she pleases.
What if we dug into YOUR past and pulled something out of the closet, then tried to restrict you for the rest of your life, about something you’ve made amends for in the past?
Are you afraid to race her, because you’ll get beat?
Her debt to society has been PAID IN FULL, so back off.
The Masters need the publicity and money. But Ms. Jones probably won’t bother.
I competed with my heroes JJK and Pam Dukes in the discus and shot put at an all-comers meet at CSU Long Beach, July of 1995. It was an experience of a lifetime. Gail Divers was also at that meet. It would be nice, but again, don’t expect these ladies to grace the Masters’ scene.
Wow Robert – calm down – Ken is just trying to provoke a discussion. No one made any of us Gods of Masters Track and Field – and I for one think this discussion is just that – chatter from the chattering class.
“Back Off” – good grief – take a deep breath – Maid Marion can do what she wishes to do. If that includes running in masters track meets – so be it. I would not go out of my way to enter that meet but if I were there – I would certainly watch her run. As for beating me – without a doubt – first of all I am not a sprinter, and secondly I am more than a few years older than she. That lastly – lots of folks beat me all the time.
I would watch her with great interest as she has amazing talent. What a shame she felt she had to cheat to win. Regardless of what you may believe – she is a cheater – and that is a stain she cannot wash off even if she has done her time in prison.
She has done her time, and had her crime plastered everywhere for everyone to see…(no matter how fast she goes she can’t outrun her reputation) I say leave her alone.
i say we forget about marion jones (although i always welcome everyone ) and concentrate on joe biden (at least it would give him something to do ) and he is a pennsylvania native…
I think Ken’s question is irrelevant. She’s probably embarrassed to the point of not competing again. If she did; she’s aware she’d always be under scrutiny; and looked at, with a wary eye. It’s a no win situation.
yes she should she did what she was inform to do and she was put in her off time and she should be abale to return to the sport.
I find Marion Jones just another disgusting cheater who exploited others.But those are my personal feelings and have no place in what she is allowed do. She had been convicted and served her time and she has every right to compete. She can also cheat again if she so chooses.
In America we are a society that takes pride in allowing people to live their lives as they see fit even if we find their conduct reprehensible.
Personally I wish they would have kept Marion locked up but she has rights. If she is out,she is free, now let her be.
As i side note i race bicycles in masters races, we are loaded(pun intended) with former drug cheats who have served their time and continue to race & win. I am convinced more than a few are still using but until they are caught i wish them all the best and actually enjoy racing with them.
If you race in Marions age group and get beat, well now you have a great story to tell and a great EXCUSE to boot. Better than losing to some hillbilly that no one has ever heard of…
Actually, now that I think about it, Ken brought up two good points that we will probably be faced with quite often now that the Michael Johnson era of athletes are now masters.
My main concern has always been with the civil rights of an athlete as a citizen, but after re-reading Ken’s blog I realized Ken was way ahead of that. In asking “shall WE let her” he meant shall we as a Masters Federation allow in our LAWS someone to compete without stipulation — i.e. mandatory drug test, etc.
Ken also brought up if we would like to see her compete, which brings to mind: Would we want to see the reunion of the 2000 Olympic 400 meter relay team competing at our nationals without some sort of MASTERS clearance?
To Nolan, and all:
WMA Anti-Doping rule (IAAF based)# 40, sub-sec. 12, in essence: an athlete previously suspended for his first drug violation has to(successfully)undergo a drug test at his own expense before regaining eligibility.
FS, ex-WMA Treasurer
“The judge should “order” Marion to run Masters Track meets for further punishment. “I hereby sentence you to languish in irrelevance and anonimity for the rest of your days as a Masters Track Athlete! (bang the gavel)”
That’s the best reply thus far!
Yes, but she has to compete in the marathon or even worse racewalks…. (2 of my events before y’all get mad at me ;p)
Here’s my opinion (would those of you hell bent on crucifying people who disagree, please show a little respect in your dissent):
It is true that Marion was caught, convicted and punished for her illegal activities…..by the justice system and sanctioned from track and field participation. She used steriod performance enhancing drugs and it was suggested that she doped.
Now, years later, your going to allow her participation against those people who played by the rules; haven’t cheated to become “super human” athletes; and possibly beat others in an event that they trained so hard to compete. If it was my event and me that she were now being allowed to compete against….I’D SAY “NO WAY”!!!! Just as I would object to participation by Mark McGuire or Barry Bonds, after years of developing drug induced super human capabilities, competing against me in a home run hitting contest. It wouldn’t even be fair. You might like seeing them; but how’d you like to now have to beat them.
Finally. Just as baseball has banned Pete Rose FOR LIFE from baseball, I see no rule that states that any of the PRIVATE clubs, IAAF, USATF or any other organization would be forced to allow her THE PRIVILEGE to participate.
Sorry, I say no to anyone, Marion or otherwise, who has crossed this particular line of drug induced, performance enhancing capabilities…….against the rest of us “joe’s” splitting our guts out to be the best with our own innate talents.
Tucker, we are a nation of laws. Marion broke those laws, but she has also fulfilled her punishment and basically is just the same as you or I in the eyes of the law.
She should not be punished additionally just because she is faster than many.
It is nice that there is such a thing as masters track & field, but in order for it to have true legitimacy it has to welcome ALL masters including Elites. Yes and that includes former cheaters.
I always felt the greatest thing about Track was competing against the watch, I never ran to win as i was always trying to better myself. What other people did in the race i really found irrelevant.
Is that not what masters track should be? Who cares who is “competing”? You are doing something you love, whether someone places ahead of you should be of no concern.
Yes, let her in but first we need to change the way we do business. Since I feel strongly about both being free from drugs and of a non-professional status those who have a history of either one of these should undergo testing at their own cost if they want to compete bad enough. It will be their reminder. There is drug and use and there is no place for it. The attitude of Masters is fun and not for monitary gain, or “in your face glory” attitudes.
Story out of Britain says MJ won’t sprint again:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/basketball/7720833/Olympic-sprinter-Marion-Jones-bounces-back-with-Tulsa-Shock.html
“Unlike Dwain Chambers, a world champion again after his own BALCO drugs shame, she says she will never return to sprinting; but she does feel empathy with him.”
Nolan Shaheed, Damon Blakemore and Robert Spence have summed up my opinion quite well, though Robert was exceptionally intense. Marion’s big sin was trying (cheating if you insist) to keep up with what she believed to be what was necessary in her sport. Like Dianne Williams many years before her. the issue that is most relevant is not whether she should be allowed to come back but is she deserving of a penalty for life? (Does the penalty fit the “crime”)? She certainly has lost a lot and I would say more than enough. I am personally disgusted that someone would discribe her as “disgusting” in this world of truly disgusting and reprehensible acts against humanity. If one believes in the premise and tenets of our justice system, then her debt has been paid many times over. She is entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, legally.
Lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits. If people cant get their own way (cheaters excluded from competing) it always comes back to lawsuits. How about this, when a drugs cheat returns, all other competitors withdraw and show solidarity. Any win will be devalued and they will soon get the message. For this to work we must all stand together. Unfortunately this will never work as too many are soft enough to forgive, and that is what a cheat hopes for. And no I would not welcome her or any cheat back.
I liked Marion then and I like her now. I wish Marion the very best, whatever she chooses to do with her life. I also resent Congress for wasting my tax dollars playing political football with pro athletes and their drugs.
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