Where do you want the 2009 masters nationals held?
Gary Snyder’s USATF Masters T&F Executive Committee (and maybe others) will be deciding in the next several weeks where outdoor nationals will go. (See this post for the news.) Usually, this pick is made at the annual meeting in December. But the urgency is palpable, so I can’t blame Gary and Co. for expediting the verdict. People have been clamoring for the meet site (and date) for weeks, realizing that Clermont was doubtful. But you should have a say, so here are some options:
Another issue is when the meet should be held — before or after the WMA world meet in Lahti, Finland — July 28 to August 9, 2009.
Here are some options:
66 Responses
has there ever been an outdoor masters championship at franklin field ? i know of the mystique of hayward field, but to me the mecca of the track and field world is in philadelphia. would it be too expensive ? what’s the deal ? albert
Let’s have some reality here. We don’t know yet who will be bidding. A bid is necessary because with out that there is no way of knowing who has the facilities, the meet management expertise and, most importantly, the ability, team and willingness to host a national championships on such short notice. So any votes here cannot be based on any more than the knowledge (via George Matthews, a member of the LOC) that Spokane is ready, willing and able to host. Mark Cleary has stated here and elsewhere that 2009 is probably not even a possibility for Mt. SAC, so why is it even included. Beyond that we are voting here in total ignorance.
Mr. Cestero, if you know of someone in Philadelphia willing to run the meet at Franklin Field tell them to put together a bid, if not for 2009 then for 2011 or in the future.
Jerry Bookin-Weiner
One more thing.
Ken, since you are in San Diego I presume you are finally ready to put your money where your mouth is and honcho a bid to hold the meet there since you’ve listed it as a possibility. If not, I hope you have a willing someone else in mind to submit the bid and run the meet.
As a Philadelphia athlete and someone who trains at famed Franklin Field I,d love to see Masters Nationals come here either in 09 or whenever,the logistics are in place,airport,hotels transportation etc,prehaps the powers that be can make it happen,in 3 trips to Masters Nationals since 06 I,ve always felt the warmth and camiradary at these events,where better than the City Of Brotherly Love.
I agree with Jerry B-W… without knowing who is willing and able to bid, our site preferences are merely wishful fantasies.
Changing the subject a little, here are a couple thoughts to kick around…
1(a). Why not alternate East Coast and West Coast sites every other year? Seems to me that would make travel expenses fairly equal for everyone.
1(b). How about picking two “permanent” climate-friendly sites for Nationals? Lots of advantages in terms of planning, promotion, management, staffing, etc. Sometimes, consistency is a good thing.
2. How about MTF managing the meet ourselves instead of contracting an LOC? Figure out how to make this a break even (or better) event, utilize our own meet management expertise and work entirely off our own budget. That way, we can rent the facility we want and run the meet ourselves.
Instead of the above, we are always scrambling to find sites willing to host this meet and are at the mercy of the LOC regarding the quality of the meet itself. Prospective sites often sound much better at the annual convention then they turn out to be in reality!
Any thoughts…?
I don’t care just pick a place and run with it…
Dave may be onto a good idea, but most of us are competitors and would not be available to help run a national meet. Masters who know would have to define what would be involved if we ran the meet ourselves, and where would we get the resources?
One question we might ask going into a nationals is: “How do we know what would be the right choice?” After the meet we can ask the same question: “Was it the right venue?” But what do we mean by these words?
I define making the right choice by the size of the turnout and the safety. In other words, did we get decent numbers (1300 or more, a low number, especially compared with other sporting events, including Senior Games, Penn Relays, etc., etc., but I guess it will have to do) and was the meet safe? I am willing to sacrifice some efficiency in the pursuit of these two goals. In other words, a meet that draws only 900 but is nicely run I do not consider a success.
In the modern era (1992-2008) only four outdoor nationals have drawn decent numbers (1300+). Those meets were Eugene 1994, East Lansing (Michigan) 1995, Eugene 2000, and Charlotte 2006. Thus, I would like to choose a location that could draw 1300 or more and would be safe (the Charlotte meet was not safe).
Personally, I favor Baldwin-Wallace (Berea, Ohio), even though it is not officially in the running. There is no way that Spokane will draw a big number in 2009. The novelty has worn off, the population within 300 miles is very modest, and some perceive it to be hard to get to. In addition, many people who attended the 2008 version came from Washington, Oregon, or California. Nothing wrong with that, other than that the 2009 Sr Games will be in Palo Alto, California. Will that be a drain on our numbers? I’m afraid so.
Berea, Ohio, is very close to Cleveland’s airport and has a huge population within 300 miles. It also has the benefit of novelty. Many people, like me, like to go someplace new. From Linda Carty’s description the layout for spectators and participants sounds superior to Spokane. But, as noted, my main concern is numbers.
In baseball, people who bat 4 for 17 are said to be batting .235 (not very good). As we have drawn decently in only 4 of the last 17 outdoors, I am hoping for someplace where we have at least a “puncher’s chance” of making that 5 for 18.
Forgot to respond to the issue of having the meet at 33rd and South Streets in Philadelphia (Franklin Field, Univ of Pennsylvania). National masters outdoors were last held there in 1980, I believe (I worked the meet). Prohibitively expensive. Only way to have the meet there would be to have Penn “give it away.” If the university charged its standard fees there is no way we could afford it without a turnout of at least 5,000 competitors plus some sponsors who came up with some dough.
Forget Penn; that’s my advice.
Mid to late June in Denver, Co. (Denver South High School Stadium or Jeffco Stadium) Boulder, (Univ. of Colorado) or Salt Lake City is a fine time to compete in those area’s. I’m sure a few runners will not want to because of the altitude, but it’s not humid, in the low to high 80’s and they are major hub’s to fly into with plenty of hotels. just a thought…
The USATF and its masters arm are a Mickey Mouse operation. They aren’t capable of putting on their own meet. All I ever hear from the so called leaders is whining about why they can’t do something instead of finding solutions.
There will be one summer meet in 2009, that will take place at a major university on the West Coast, and will have 3000+ competitors in track and field, just in ages 50+. At least the NSG puts together an event that can draw competitive bids, and get key sites/cities excited about hosting it.
that’s what i want to hear…someone with the experience of having “been there, done that”… thanks peter ! what about Princeton ? bear with me here…my first meet as a submaster was the indoor natls in 1984 at jadwin. i remember the turnout to be great, and the meet run equally great. i took a close silver in the long jump to fred samara’s gold. a couple of years later in ’86 i ran outdoors at mitchell field long island.ny… another outstanding meet.it was quite a while till 2004 indoors at boston…fantastic, and last year, orno, maine.a trip and event i’ll always cherish. i was entered at charlotte two years ago but a kidney stone got in my way. we’ve got to have some in’s with all the competitors backgrounds and schools.i remember while at seton hall we hit the u of tennessee, knoxville campus and i came away with a new look at the world. i’m tossing different ideas out there. it’s up to those with expertise to approve or disprove.a few years back, when my older daughter was looking at universities, she was totally confused. frustrated, i took out a globe, and continent by continent, let her rule out options, until we narrowed it to the eastern united states. shea started at florida atlantic u in boca, but after a semester arrived at rutgers college, where she got her BA.she’s at georgian court in grad school now.i guess if you don’t test the waters, you can’t guarantee a good fit, and heaven knows there’s enough of us out there that got our feet wet more than once. We should be able to come up with a site for future national meets.i understand that there has to be a bid, but it could be possible to initiate the process simply by calling on those people in the right places.i’ll reach out to coach samara to see if princeton would be interested in hosting .the worst that could happen is nothing…albert
I’m with Mr. Taylor on this one.
The novelty of Spokane has worn off and I’d like to go someplace new for my 2nd masters nationals. If the choice was between Spokane and Clermont I’ll take Spokane again but would like to travel somewhere new like outside of Cleveland.
And, fairness in location is important. Look, us West Coasters had it in Spokane this year. We get it again in 2010 in Sacto and possibly in 2011 at Mt. SAC but that’s up in the air.
Putting the shoe on the other foot, if it were slated to be in Orono one year, Philly the next, Orono again, and Charlotte I’d be absolutely peeved.
A Midwest location in June before the humidity hits hard would be ideal.
Ok…Omaha, Nebraska. Burke High school. They held the 2008 USATF Junior Olympics. Nice track and throwing area’s and as central USA as it gets.
Burke High School is my alma mater! I won three medals in the 1972 Nebraska State meet at Burke, which hosted state that year.
Great idea, Milt!
Omaha, here I come!
(Now if we can just find someone there to make a bid!)
Thanks, Mellow Johnny, and I appreciate your perspective, Ted Irvine. BTW, I didn’t choose the figure of 1300 entrants out of the air…if you go back to 1989 (San Diego) you will find that was the first time our outdoor nationals drew more than 1400.
I found from the October National Masters News that Spokane failed to draw 1000 even with no Sr Games, no Worlds, etc. to draw away potential competitors. I think we have to be realistic; any event that can draw more than 1400 in 1989 but can’t break 1000 in 2008 (with the U.S. population in 2008 far larger than it was back at the end of the 1980s, with masters T&F much better known now than it was then, with the Sr Games going through the roof, with road races booming, etc., etc.) is in a bit of trouble. That’s just being frank. I think Mr. Irvine is being conservative; I expect over 5000 entrants next year in Palo Alto for a limited schedule of track and field events in a competition that is restricted to those 50+. That would be the Sr Games.
I do believe that Baldwin Wallace University would be a good place to host a meet. Please see this link: http://www.bw.edu/athletics/fb/info/tresselfield/photogallery/august15/
Also, Finnie Stadium has hosted three NCAA Division III national championship track meets. The Ohio Sports Festival/Ohio State Games also use Finnie as both a regional and state championship site. There are six area hotels within 3 miles of the stadium, that I am sure a lot less expensive than $100.00 per night! See: http://www.bw.edu/athletics/B-WAthlVisitGuide08.pdf
Cleveland Hopkins Airport is about 4 miles away.
I’m a fairly new Master’s runner(age 42) but has anyone examined the question as to why the Senior Games draw so much better than the USATF Masters meets? What do they do differently? Is our continued connection/reliance on USATF actually hurting us? I know this topic has come up before but I haven’t heard any good answers.
I’m a fairly new Master’s runner(age 42) but has anyone examined the question as to why the Senior Games draw so much better than the USATF Masters meets? What do they do differently? Is our continued connection/reliance on USATF actually hurting us? I know this topic has come up before but I haven’t heard any good answers.
The senior games have 25 different sports with 87 different events.
Comparing the USATF to the senior games is not comparing apples to apples
But we are comparing just 1 of those sports, not 25. According to the October 2007 issue of National Masters News (page 1), the 2007 Senior Games drew “close to 4200…And that’s just in track and field.” Clearly, we would not be interested in making comparisons with the other 24 sports. In track and field alone, the Senior Games win by a margin so large as to be embarrassing.
Rod Jett is absolutely correct; the Sr Games win, the masters lose (in terms of attendance).
The 2007 NSGA M60-64 javelin had 19 actual contestants (33 originally entered). I have competed in the javelin at the 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2007 National Masters meets and we never had even 10 competitors in any of those meets except possibly Baton Rouge in 2001 (can’t remember, that’s too long ago now).
On the subject of possible 2009 sites – what about Baton Rouge again – great facility at LSU, quality officials. The possible downside is the heat and humidity. Many may remember the excessive humidity and rainfall at the 2001 meet; that was way-over-the-top, even by Louisiana standards and its not likely to be that bad again; might be hotter, but shouldn’t be as humid. I know the runners going 1500 meters and longer won’t like it, but the heat shouldn’t bother and may help, sprinters, jumpers and
throwers.
Also, how about going back to Decatur, Illinois. That track seemed to produce some pretty good times in 2004. It was almost too cool for a track meet then; not likely to be repeated in Central Illinois in July. Same comments regarding Baton Rouge also apply here. This site also gives me an excuse to visit my Illinois Schaub cousins.
Decatur was the site of one of the most hilarious albeit sad lap counting episodes of my nearly 30 years of running msster track. The officials who were suppose to be counting laps for the 5k run on the track were standing with their backs to the track talking amongst themselves about what they were going to eat for lunch. Many lap counting errors including a broadcast for a supposed missing competitor in the 5k – “has anyone seen xxxxx” Well folks that person was standing next to me by the track – having finished his race more than a few minutes earlier. His lap counter must have been discussing the merits of pie vs cake for dessert. A review of the tape showed that he had indeed finished the race in excellent health.
And the Meet director apparently did not want to pay for the championship patches. He ended up having to pay even more to have them express mailed — and later mailing them out to age group first place winners.
Picky picky- I know – and perhaps a second time they would remember the mistakes of the first time.
It was a nice track, dorms close by- the lucky ones got the new dorms , the unlucky got the unrenovated buildings. But even those were much nicer than the dorm at the University of Hawaii. Remember the “special keys”.
I would go to Decatur again – if for no other reason than to watch the TSA agent at the little airport hold up and shake out all the clothing in one athlete’s carry on bag for all of us to see, including underwear. It is the only airport where the plastic zipper on my travel pants set off the beeper and I got a wand thrust time and time again against the front of my pants in an effort to make it beep again. The overcooked green beans in the cafeteria brought back memories of the way my mother use to cooked green beens to extinction. Is that a mid-western thing? But – not going to the dinner and Abe Lincoln show again.
Seriously it was a good meet put on by nice folks. I would go there again if the folks at the university want to host again. Obviously I have a lot of good menories of a fun time. Much more than I can say for Charlotte or this past August in Clermont.
The heat and humidity of Baton Rouge alone is enough of a reason to nix it for nationals.
FYI: USATF Masters Outdoor meet with dates and the location of Clermon has been pulled from the 2009 calendar.
It may be apples and oranges, but looking at the 2007 results:
http://www.nsga.com/secure/Documents/results%20book%20updated%20-%20results%20only.pdf (large pdf, T&F results are pgs 62-78) they drew a ton of competitors for having fewer T&F events and fewer age groups.
122 women and 176 men competed in the discus, for example.
Why is Mt. SAC the only choice for a venue in the Los Angeles area? Other places to consider are Cerritos College, the Home Depot stadium in Carson, Pasadena CC, and Cal Tech. I have been to Masters or Senior meets at all of them. With the exception of Cal Tech, they all have good size stadiums.
Where the 2009 Masters Outdoor National Championship should be held?
My first thought is to look at the location(s) where we have had the most participation. If that’s not an option; I would look at central locations; with relatively easy driving excess/cheap airline tickets. (i.e. Atlanta; Nashville, Memphis, Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, etc.) Those cities are just examples that may fit the aforementioned criteria. The thought is for those who live on the left and right coasts my have longer flights; however you may have a higher probability of finding a cheaper ticket based on the frequency of flights to a carriers hub or one of their popular destinations cities.
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