Sacramento train wreck in the offing? Heat is on to fix schedule
Logistics are a bitch. A four-day masters championships with hundreds of heats is always a bear to schedule. But add temps in the high 90s, and you have a potential disaster in Sacramento. After the exact time schedule was posted Monday, many of you noted problems. One athlete wrote me: “My 5K and 1500 start at 7 a.m. I am at the meet hotel and the info says the shuttle to the track starts at 6:30 — (with) check-in 15 minutes before the start of the race. Well, I don’t know about other folks, but a 5-minute period to warm up does not do it for me. Starting events early is great, but will they start the hotel shuttle early?”
Here’s another critique. A longtime USATF official and masters athlete entered at Sacramento sent this note to members of the USATF Masters Games Committee (who have oversight on scheduling issues). I’ve redacted names of athletes to spare them embarrassment.
Today the schedule for the meet was posted.
Inspired by comments in Ken Stone’s blog, I looked at the potential times from athletes entered in the 10,000 meters. I looked beyond the entry times to mastersrankings.com to see what we might expect.
Men’s 10,000 only has an hour and five minutes allotted in the schedule. (Name redacted) ran 1:23:33 in June. If he does anything of the sort, the meet will be 20 minutes behind schedule.
Women’s 10,000 is scheduled at 8:05 a.m., and is given an hour and five minutes to take place. However W70 (name redacted) ran a 5000, half the distance, at Lahti in 48:24. At best, we could expect her to finish in an hour and forty minutes, probably longer. This one athlete will make the meet 35 minutes late. Also in the race with a listed qualifying mark is (name redacted) at 1:13, so there are other people who will run slower than the amount of time scheduled to deal with.
So if you let these athletes finish their race before stating the next heat, the meet will be almost an hour late by the third race of the day. With notorious Sacramento temperatures expected to start rising at 9 a.m., this could result in serious issues for the remainder of the 10,000 field.
The 5000 schedule on Thursday has even more potential for trouble because as published it is starting the last races at 11:15 a.m. We are now 10 days out and I guess it is fortunate that current 10-day weather predictions are for a cool day on Wednesday (the farthest day away that predictions are available). If the trend continues, that might mean we only are dealing with temperatures in the low 90s. Still those are not good for distance runners who could be finishing their race close to noon.
Even more alarming is conducting the entire steeplechase competition between 11:45 and 1:10 p.m. That’s the heat of the day.
I’m not personally involved in any of these events. I wanted you folks to be aware of these potential problems so they might be dealt with before they become reality.
73 Responses
I’m more concerned with the lack of heats in the M40 and M45 1500m, which have 28 and 29 entrants, respectively. The heats are allocated 6 minutes, and they’ll need more time than that to clean up the blood and bodies from the track.
It can be pretty warm around 11:00-noon, but the real “heat of the day”, and the time to be most concerned with is around 2:00-4:00. Take care everybody!
They will have to move the slower athletes to the outer lane in the 5k and 10k – and perhaps the track race walk as well – or as noted the meet will be off schedule almost before the day begins.
Re the claim that events longer than 1500m would be in the morning -I assumed that meant – all ssctions – but the steeplechase does not begin until 11:45 on Friday – with various sections going on well after 1 pm. Perhaps the LOC plans on filling the water jump with ice so the steeplers can cool off as they jump into the water pit.
As for the shuttle from the hotel – I am the one who wrote a note about that – I have two 7 am starts – Thurs and Sunday – a 6:30 am shuttle is totally unacceptable – I emailed the LOC asking them to start it earlier – and will wait to see if I get a response and what it is. Perhaps one or two of the officials staying at the meet hotel who have to be out there early will be kind enough to give me a ride. Or I will have to take a taxi. But if they run a shuttle -the start time in the morning needs to match up with the start time of the events and allow for proper warm-up as well as check in time. Which means before 6 am –
Often after one checks into an event – we are not allowed to do anyting more than a few strides on the track. That is NOT a warm up – If I am running at 7 am – I want to be at the track by 6 am. And the track needs to be OPEN at 6 am – for 7 am starts. The officials need time to set up for the 7 am start – to have the finish line clock up and running – camera set up, water out for the competitors, officials in place, lap counter in place etc – this does not happen by magic – it takes time. And for the officials who are staying in the dorm – an early breakfast – and good luck with that.
Why dont you get three or four athletes together and spend 3 – 4 bucks and take a cab? sounds more reasonable than getting all worked up about something you could have total control of and concentrate on your race.
Stop whining everybody. Just go run the races you trained for and get on with it. If your hotel shuttle doesn’t leave early enough, jog to the track (if close) or call a cab. No time schedule would be perfect. Just be thankful that the races are early to beat the heat. Holy smokes, this story should never have even been published, let alone linked to RunningTimes.com.
We should all be praying for a cold front to move through next week. I was hopeful that they would honor their commitment to run all distance races in the morning. I will be running the Steeple at 12:55 providing the meet goes as scheduled. That is just too late to be running older people in July in Sacramento. I looked over the Friday schedule and apparently the committee thinks the racewalkers need the early starting time more so (nothing against the racewalkers). Then after they finish, you throw in some short hurdle races (I suppose they want to give them a little time to recover before the 100 meters)before the Steeple.
I guess I feel that the needs of the Steeplechasers were not given ample consideration. Is there anyway that changes can be made to run the Steeple earlier as promised?
Caution is definitely in order as our susceptibility to heat exhaustion and its ill-effects increase with age! The logistics of event timing and individual athlete requirements is daunting, but close attention must be paid to this issue lest we be left with serious medical consequences!
Bob Burns of the Sacramento LOC writes:
Ken,
Please quote me regarding the athletes’ shuttle.
“Now that we have seen the final schedule as set by the USA Masters committee, we will make the obvious adjustment in the transportation schedule. It was always our intention to begin the shuttles an hour before competition begins, so we will begin shuttles from the DoubleTree at 6 a.m. on each of the four days of
competition.”
I have competed in a total 17 Masters Nationals Track and Field and XC-ski racing and 7 World Masters and One World Masters Games since 1999. Never been to a bad Nationals or Worlds. They have all been great experiences. Folks if all you come for is to whine and spread negativity there is an option to stay home. Otherwise JUST DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! SWOOSH. Get it done.
Boggs: “Just be thankful the races are early enough to beat the heat”
Uh, not the steeple…it’s right in the middle of it.
Nope, the heat peaks around 4:00 per daily charts on the internet.
You’ll be done by then.
I was a little concerned with the final schedule when I saw it last night. I am competing in the M40 steeple and we are scheduled to begin at 1:10PM. I happen to live in Sacramento and the past couple of weeks have been rather pleasant (with the exception of a couple of really hot days). I haven’t seen the current 10 day forcast but I do know they are predicting 100+ temps. for this weekend. Hopefully it will go back to the highs we have been experiencing the past month which are in the high 80’s and low 90’s at the end of the day (not at noon like it could happen). Nothing is certain in Sacramento in the summer. I am hoping the local organizing committee will reconsider (or USATF)and move the heats to the evening. They did this in North Carolina when there was thunder and lightning. High temps is definitly inclimate weather and needs to treated with respect. If not, I am going to suck it up and go for it. Everyone else has the same problem.
Did anybody read the small print on the schedule:
“subject to change”
so, let’s just wait.
Tommy Aunon, whoever you are, I’ll go with your
words. But then, I don’t run any distance.
What’s the saying: “when the going gets tough, the sprinters stop” outch…
My coach(way back in the 50th..) used to say: any dummy can run 100 m, so go and run a 200 m”
and he meant my friends and me.
I have to agree with those who say “Quit your whining” This is a National competition. You should be ready for all conditions and your supposed to be well conditioned athletes who have been training for this meet for some time. Buy an umbrella to ward off the effects of the sun, bring a small carry cooler packed with ice for drinks to stay hydrated and use the ice to cool your neck. Whatever it takes, do it, but as one person wrote, Stay home if all you’re going to do is Whine and B–ch about something that is out of everyone’s control, the weather! As others have said, catch a cab if your worried about the shuttle, warm up lightly at the hotel if you have to, so that when you arrive at the track you’re somewhat ready. If you have experienced, or have heat related problem’s you then should not be competing at this meet to begin with. For all of you that are complaining about the weather and heat, which can’t be helped, ask them to run race heats at 2:00am-5:00am. I’m sure there will be no heat problems then, but then you’d complain about no sleep. My suggestion for next years Nationals and those after are that they be held in Bettles, Alaska, which is just above the Arctic Circle and has an average temperature in July of low 60’s to low’ 70’s degree’s. I can here the complaints now…”It’s too far to go and compete.”, “Those Eskimo’s scare me!”, ” Will the dog sled be there in time to take me to my 1500m race?… What kind of village are you running here! Don’t you know we’re Masters athletes!”
Whoever put this schedule together is a irresponsible, no one remembers what happened in North Carolina? Why can’t races be run in the evening? The meet is about the ATHLETES not the officials and meet organizers. This is sad, we train all year long for Championship races, hoping that the tracks are fast, competition is fierce and the weather allows us to run comfortable…… not the case at the USA Nationals. Let’s hurry up and get out of here, its just some old people running it doesn’t matter…. sad…..
This is not whining, this is reality.
So easy to tell people to “stop whining” and criticize others when you’re not the one who has to run a brutal distance race in the middle of the day.
This is an easy fix. Run the steeples at the end of the day instead of in the middle. Or, run us starting at 6am- it’d be better than 1:10 which PT predicts will really be closer to 2.
Running a 5000, steeplechase, or 10,000 in severe heat changes the race completely. It changes tactics. It negates many of the adaptations of training. And it changes outcomes – not just of the race in question, but of subsequent races (due to the aftereffects of heat). If an alternative is available – evening races out of the sun come to mind – then that alternative should be explored and exploited if feasible.
Being fit and ready to race under all conditions is not synonymous with finding those conditions acceptable. Athletes who have prepared long and hard to run good races have every right to complain when they perceive that meet organizers have failed to provide a venue in which that preparation can be put to use. Suggesting they are “whiners” is unfair and uncalled for.
In the future, it might be wise for this national meet to consider a switch favored by many open-level meets: a distance carnival the night preceding the traditional opening of the meet. 5000 meter runners could race on Wednesday night, and then all races the following day could begin earlier, with better recovery for those doubling back for the 800. The 10,000s and steeples could be run in a similar fashion. The problem of heat isn’t going away for this national meet anytime soon. Creative scheduling – not name-calling – is the solution.
In reply to the “Anonymous” comment that the steeplechasers actually aren’t running in the heat of the day, this is from the e-mail to Ken posted above:
“Even more alarming is conducting the entire steeplechase competition between 11:45 and 1:10 p.m. That’s the heat of the day.”
All predictions are that we’ll be running the last races in the ‘chase closer to 2pm or later.
Just stating that the absolute hottest part of the day is actually at 4pm- probably 1 degree higher than at 2pm- to try and prove we aren’t running in the heat of the day isn’t helpful whatsoever.
Thanks, Peter Magill, for the post. You’re right on.
My Prius has only registered over 100 degrees twice since 2003-at Kamloops last summer at Canadian Nationals (10k,5k,1500,1500RW) and Spokane Nationals (5k,5kRW, 10k,10kRW) the year before! It was really hot at Spokane, but they did have the 10k at Kamloops really early, which was nice 🙂 If it’s hot I’ll probably skip the 5k, and just be slower in the other events(10k,10kRW,5kRW)You have to adapt to your conditions,injuries and other issues. It’s fantastic that so many people have siged up (a positive),but that means more people to organise and maybe hotter for some of us (a negative). We plan on having a great time (always) and yes, probably whine about the heat too!! and injuries and…. If all else fails there is the steeplechase pit ;p Should be a hoot 🙂
I guess I’ll be called names after this, but has anyone bothered to look at the weather forecast for the days of the meet? Yeah, it’s 10 days away but right now the forecast temps are:
Thursday-88
Friday-90
Saturday-89
Sunday-90.
Maybe you should wait until at least the meet starts before declaring it a disaster.
Great post by Pete. PM distance type carnival is the way to go. A 5 day schedule should be considered.
Good point but my weather forecaster is stating that the weather will be:
Thursday – 98
Friday – 99
Saturday – 99
Sunday – 96
But maybe the Track & Field Gods will be merciful.
That is the forecast for this upcoming weekend NOT the weekend of the meet which is the weekend after, rod J was correct with the meet weekend temps forecast.
I’m the opposite of all of you… I like it hot, my PR’s (sprints and jumps) have all been in late afternoon/early evening heat.
But my event is at 9:30 am, when it will be pleasant and in the 70s!? oh well, I will hope for a furnace-like morning for my event!
I am looking forward to everyone being shocked at the temp being tolerable, the steeplers not dropping from being broiled alive from running “in the heat of the day” but what other kind of heat is there the heat of the night perhaps, and the sky not falling on this disasterous masters championship in Sacramento.
Oh yeah!! Well my forecast says: Thursday-99, Friday-102, Saturday-100, Sunday-99…just kidding, I’m going with Rod on his forecast, I see a cool front moving in July 19th during the evening and dropping the daily temps from from the mid-to-high 90’s, to the low 90’s to possible upper 80’s…And Johnny, it’s not anyone’s fault other than the athlete that picks brutal races to run. No one is forcing them to run those races. They knew long ago where the meet was going to be held and I’m sure, checked to see what the Summer conditions and temp averages where going to be, if they didn’t do so and train accordingly, again it’s their fault. Every freakin’ year we read the same complaints about the heat at all outdoor Nationals..why Because it’s SUMMER people, it’s supposed to be hot. And here’s another thing, I’ve competed in conditions that were unacceptable for throwing, but the kicker was, we all were throwing in the same crap conditions, no advantage for anyone. My other obtion was not to compete at all if I was so concerend for my health and worried about injury. I hope you all do find a solution as Pete metioned to race away from direct sunlight, mornings, etc. but then what if people start complaining they don’t want to compete at 6:00am because they’re not morning people and need to be up for 3 or 4 hours before the compete, or others who really are not bothered by competing in the heat at all. If it’s supposed to be between 89 and 91 degrees, that’s actually pretty good conditions for a Summer meet folks…and Johnny, the peak TEMPERATURE of the day is between 3:45pm and 5:00pm, not 11:45pm to 1:30pm. So if the high is supposed to be 93 degrees on that particular day, it should be around 81-83 degrees at noon and near 86-87 degrees by 1:30pm. Not as Sahara like as you all want folks to think.
I would just like to add a few points regarding the expected weather conditions for the distances races at nationals. In an earlier post someone quoted climate statistics indicating the maximum temperature in Sacramento is usually not reached until around 4 pm in the afternoon. However, it should be noted that that temperature is the ambient air temperature measured in a white-painted ventilated box located about 2 meters above the ground and is not necessarily representative of a surface exposed to direct sunlight such as a track, a runner’s skin, or a runner’s clothing. Those surfaces would typically be much warmer and follow more closely the diurnal pattern of solar insolation which peaks around local noon. Furthermore, even just looking at the typical diurnal cycle of ambient air temperature in the Sacramento region indicates that approximately 76 % of the temperature rise occurs between 6 am and noon, with only modest increases after that before a rapid decrease after 6pm. One reason for this non-uniform temperature rise is that as the air near the ground warms turbulent eddies develop and mix somewhat cooler air down from higher altitudes and sometimes produce windy conditions, though this second part is highly dependent on the large-scale weather pattern and terrain. Given this information, one could argue that the heat of the day occurs roughly between 11:00 am and 6pm and steeplechasers like Mellow Johnny and younger 5k runners may have to contend with very difficult conditions. This pattern is not unique to Sacramento as many locations in the conterminous U.S. experience similar diurnal temperature cycles in the summertime.
Hi everyone, I got this Sacto extended forecast from Accuweather.com. This weekend is going to be very hot, upper 90s, but look what is predicted for the meet. Enjoy! But bring your sunscreen.
hu
7/22/2010 87° 59° A full day of sunshine
Fri
7/23/2010 89° 58° A full day of sunshine
Sat
7/24/2010 89° 56° Sunshine
Sun
7/25/2010 89° 59° Sunshine
Those temperatures work for me!
Well, No-Show Bro, since you mentioned me twice in your post you’re obviously interested in what I have to say 🙂
You’re absolutely right that I choose to run the steeplechase, a brutal event which borders on insanity to want to compete in it. I get that. I also know from the last two years that it’s traditionally been around 2pm when we’ve run (we ran 2 hours late in Spokane and was above 90 when we ran there).
The BIG and really only issue I have with the schedule this year is that it’s stated since February 19th “All races 1500m and longer will be run in the morning.” Well, we can argue all we want about how hot is hot but 1:10pm ain’t the morning no matter how you cut it, at least not in Sacramento and everywhere else in Pacific time. There’s a reason they call it “after noon.” Myself and others registered and paid to run the steeple based on that information. That isn’t “our fault” that what was posted wasn’t followed through on even though I imagine you might blame us for that, too 🙂
Yeah, I’m ticked and not happy that my distance event is scheduled later in the day that we were told and it’s going to be a lot hotter than I want. That being said, the schedule is the schedule and time to deal with it, hope the weather is what Rod has listed or cooler, and just run my guts out as always.
I agree with the option Pete proposed and have the distances in the evening like they do at the open meets. I have seen the 10 day forcast and if all goes well it will only get into the low 90’s. I live here in the Sacramento area and it is supposed to be low 90’s today. I looked at my Thermometer at 1:10 PM and the tempeture was only 80 degrees. Now that is not an ideal distance running tempeture but it is not unbearable. The hottest part of the day here isn’t until 5 PM. Hopefully a solution can be reached but if not let us enjoy another great outdoor nationals. Bring lots of sunscreen and remember to smile!
It’s totally logical that the distance races should be run later in the day when the weather cools down. No show just wants to be difficult.
Thanks, Tony. Good luck to you in Sacramento.
Mellow Johnny, I was with you there in Spokane and I remember it being hot. Ironically it was cooler on Thursday and the weekend at that meet. It even rained Saturday and Sunday. The Steeple was no picnic. However, if the weather stays like it has been the past couple of weeks it should be no hotter than 80 degrees at the start of the 30-49 steeple (if it goes off at 1:10). That already is better than Spokane and 10 times better than Charlotte in 2006 (85-90 with 90% humidity). I am looking forward to seeing you here in Sacto.
Weather doesn’t cool down in Sacramento until 1 AM. After the sun comes down the hot air just holds for a few hours. Good luck and stay hydrated!
We certainly didn’t catch the breaks that Friday, Mike. Hottest day of the four and we ended up 2 hours late. With the schedule being what it is, I anticipate we’ll be an hour or two late again as Peter Taylor has mentioned and if it’s earlier, that would be great. I’m certainly glad to see Liz Palmer’s forecast of 89 for Friday.
I’m expecting the heat and hey, since we did it in Spokane, no reason we can’t do it next week- will just have to run conservative so it’s not a death march until the last 2 or 3 laps instead of the last 5 :). We are gluttons for punishment, right? See you in Sacto and best of luck to you, Mike. Hope you’re enjoying your taper…
It’s laughable that the people who have been weeping and wailing and gnashing their teeth over this subject over the past week on this site on a different thread are offended now that a couple of people have posted messages telling them to suck it up. You got used to the support of like minded types and are now shocked that a few of the silent majority (I hope) of Mission focused, I can make it happen type ATHLETES got fed up and told you to stop whining. I’ll bet when you’re bragging to your grandson the Marine in Afghanistan about how Ol Grandad ran at NATIONALS you leave out the part where you cried for 2 weeks about the 90 degree weather and beat yourself before the race even started.
Oye, Boricua – No me digas que eres Puerto Ricenio y tienes miedo de un poquito calor. Y para que sepas, es mas frio por la manana, no por la tarde como tu crees en Sacramento. Que tengas buena suerte en tu prueba! El Cubano de Capistrano
Well, how about discussing another issue that has received some but not a great deal of attention? I am talking about the very ambitious schedule.
Example: The 100-m dash for men 85-99 is scheduled for 11:15 AM on Saturday. From my experience, that will involve the following:
1. Confirming (and even pointing out) the lanes for the gentlemen who will be competing.
2. Advising them that they can use a standing start if desired.
3. Going over the commands.
4. Adjusting the blocks for those who want to use them.
5. Letting those who use blocks have one “run-out” of about 20 meters.
6. Confirming by signals or some kind of audio that the FAT crew is ready.
7. Having the starter give 2 commands and then fire the gun.
8. Running the race.
The next 100 dash will be at 11:18, 3 minutes later. It’s not as exciting a topic as heat or overall scheduling, but does anyone think this is too ambitious? I would be looking at more like 6 to 7 minutes for this race and numerous other dashes. It will add up. Or do people think that 3 minutes is enough?
Going to the track and practice now-110 degrees and 20% humidity Thursdays Practice will be in about 115 degrees. Its something you just have to prepare for. There really is nothing you can do about it.
Thank you Mellow Johnny for “hitting the nail on the head.” When our national association tells us that all distance races will be run in the morning, I take them at their word. I also agree with Pete that some creative thinking could eliminate a lot of these problems. I suggested two venues utilized in the morning to eliminate these problems. Ultimately I don’t think anyone is whinning. I do think that we need to be very careful in pushing the limits with weather conditions for older athletes.
does the website mention IMPLEMENT WEIGH-IN location and times?? I want to do it before it gets too hot; early in the morning or late at night under the lights 🙂
Also, in 2006, I got a ribbon for 6th place- indoors was always medals top three only, but when did outdoors stop giving an award for places 4-6?
Finally, can any of the Sacramento locals comment on the temps during July 7-17 when the Worlds will be happening, compared to end of the month for this outdoor Nationals?
Hey Dale- First off, thanks for the reply and the kind words- not enough of those going around any more I’m afraid. Next up, congrats on your American 55-59 record. That’s an incredible time. I was hoping to be in the same race as you since I’ve run 10:38 this year and you’ve run 10:39. Was hoping to help push you to an even faster record but with the time of our races, that’s obviously out the window anyway.
As usual, us steeplechasers are the black sheep of the track & field world which is nothing new as you know. I’m glad you and other ‘chasers have spoken up and expressed the concerns we have as a group.
You’re right that no one is whining. The fact that those concerns are being ridiculed by others isn’t something I should be surprised by since hey, it’s always tough for steeplers. Somehow this board has attracted some trolls over the years as well.
At this point, I’ve realized that many people on here aren’t in our shoes, don’t understand the difficulty of the steeple, and certainly don’t realize how much tougher it is in heat (“hey, you guys have water to run through, what are you bellyachin’ about?”).
So, I’m just skipping other entries from non-steeplers besides Peter Taylor (who I could never see ridiculing anyone) and realizing that us steeplers have a legitimate concern here. I hope it’s addressed at some point since, while it’ll be tough enough for me at 33 next Friday, as Dr. Beller pointed out, things could be very difficult for the supermaster athletes.
Best of luck to you Dale and looking forward to seeing you in Sacto!
Mellow Johnny:
Keep up the passion for our event!
Peter – with this being an El Nino year it has been very pleasant 88-99. Normally anytime in July it is 95-105 but the weather is a dry hot…not humid. Bring a spray bottle & battery operated mini-fan to keep you cool.
What a difference a week makes. If the meet had been scheduled for this weekend, you would hear a lot of howling during and after the competition:
Predicted highs from AccuWeather for Sacramento:
Thursday (July 15) 92
Friday (July 16) 99
Saturday (July 17) 100
Sunday (July 18) 100
However, the meet will be July 22-25, with projected highs from AccuWeather as follows:
July 22 90
July 23 87
July 24 89
July 25 89
Yes, we will apparently catch a break. Ironically, this will have a major impact on carrying out the meet in a timely fashion. With the more pleasing temperatures one can expect fewer scratches in the distance races. With very hot weather I believe we would have had scratches galore, which would have had a good effect in terms of following the schedule.
Let’s look at Saturday (July 24) again for an illustrative example. We come right out of the box (7 AM) with a 10,000-m run for men 60+ that includes 27 Americans plus an unknown number of Canadians and runners from other countries. With the nice weather (I’m guessing it will be only 65 at that time — Californians, tell me if I am wrong), I am predicting that most will show.
It will be a big field, and it poses problems for lap counting. And when it’s finished it will be long after 8:05 AM, the starting time for the next race, the 10,000 for women 30-74. That one will have 35 women plus an unknown number of foreign competitors. Again, the threat of errors in lap counting, even with the best of lap scorers.
In post no. 3, Mary Harada said that the slower athletes should be moved to the outer lane in a race like the 10,000. Fair enough, but I believe this happens very rarely. Rather, in most cases I think they just “let ’em rumble.” “When they finish we’ll start the next race.” I believe that is the norm.
So…we have apparently escaped “the big heat,” and now we have to see whether a tightly packed schedule with huge fields can be followed. This is our mandate, not from the LOC but from USATF Masters. It was apparently considered to be the optimal set of choices given the various constraints, and thus we have nothing more to do than say “Let ’em roll.”
My response to Tj who does not have the character to use his/her name – re – jog to the track – the meet hotel is (I am told) 4.5 miles from the track. If I am to race a 5k – a 4.5 “jog” is a bit much especially since I know nothing about the roads in the area and might have to “jog” down a busy highway. I was prepared to pay for a cab. Clearly you think I am just too stupid to think of that.
I have total control over the situation TJ – now you get total control over yourself before you start sounding off with a negative post and without the courage to sign your name.
Jennifer – thank you for the great details about the weather pattern in Sacramento. One other aspect which has not been discussed is that the dewpoint in Sacto is rarely above 45F, compared to 60F and higher in NC, FL and even Orono. Yes, the heat can be intense, but at least our sweat will evaporate and the moisture in the air is not thick enough to see.
I always coach my runners on adaptaption. If you’re focusing on a track meet, then you should do workouts on the track. If the event is at a location like Sacramento where it can get hot, then schedule some of your workouts in the heat of the day. It’s just common sense. This meet has been scheduled for a long time, so the possibility of running in the heat should not come as a surprise.
Well, I guess some people never grow out of that high school jock mentality – you know, the one where you rip other competitors in order to make yourself feel like something special.
For the record, I and every distance runner at the meet will, in fact, be “sucking it up” – the same as we do every time we race. Because our events are all about sucking it up. Our events don’t last seconds. They last minutes. And while any fool can put his hand on a hot stove for a few seconds, it’s a different matter to put that hand in a pot of water while it’s brought to a slow boil … and then leave it there until everyone else has called, “Uncle.”
You’ll note that none of us is complaining about running the 800 final in the heat. That’s because it’s a non-factor for a race that short.
As for braving the elements, we distance runners managed to race 10K over ice and snow in 15 degrees (F) with 30-40 mile winds in our National XC Championships two years ago. A few times a year, we run in mud, rain, cold, heat. We run up mountains and through sand and along barely navigable trails. We run in every kind of climate over every kind of geography at every elevation and on every kind of surface. So spare me the glory stories of throwing in inclement weather.
As for this being a national championship – and the observation that we can just stay home if we don’t like the weather. Well, sure, if there was another outdoor national championship for masters track. But there isn’t. And every year, the problem facing distance runners is the same at this meet – the possibility of heat and a schedule that pretends we shouldn’t care. And since this does occur every year, and since this is the only national track championship, it’d be nice if it got taken care of by a simple solution like running the distance races in the evening.
Oh, but that’s right, the temperature doesn’t drop that much when the sun goes down. Guess us stupid distance runners didn’t realize that. You know what else us stupid distance runners will be doing at Sacramento? … Looking for shade during the day. Since apparently there’s no difference between standing in the sun and being in the shade (which like evening racing, is out of the sun), I’d really appreciate it if non-whiny weather warriors would leave what shade there is for us whiny distance people.
I’ll tell you something else. If this meet were scheduled EVERY year in a place where the weather was 40-50 degrees F (perfect for distance!), and if the sprints were all scheduled for early AM when the temps were in the 30s, I’d be the first at the podium demanding better scheduling for my sprinter and hurdler peers. The same goes for a hypothetical where the meet was scheduled every year in a darn wind tunnel, affecting the field events. Because you’re my sporting peers, I respect you, and I’d want the meet to give you the best chance to run your best race. You need to understand, this is an every-year obstacle for distance people.
Look, here’s the real problem: because of the yearly decision to run distance races in the heat, masters distance runners DON’T show up (this will be my first appearance in 7 years – and I’m only running because it’s in my home state). There are 20 million masters distance competitors in the USA. A local 5K – the Carlsbad 5000 – has more entrants in the Mens Masters 5K alone than will be competing in this entire national meet in all events … men and women combined!
At a time when our sport is in severe financial difficulty, it just might make sense to figure out a way to attract more distance runners. Or a few of you can keep up the practice of tossing out ill-informed insults and suggesting that there’s nothing wrong with running distance events in the heat of the day (and fyi, over-80 and in the sun is still too hot … 90-100 is just insanely hot).
Personally, I’ll take Rod Jett’s advice and just wait to see what the weather’s like. And then I’ll run hard no matter what. And I’ll have a spectacular time, socializing with competitors and friends from all the different events.
And then I’ll go back to running distance races organized by the long-distance running arm of the USATF and local groups – who understand the physiological demands of distance running enough to schedule races in the early morning or evening.
With all due respect to a distinguished competitor and world record holder (post no. 47) You’ve mixed up the poster who suggested jogging to the venue(IF CLOSE). (post no. 5)with post No. 4. Both posts by the way are spot on and how they could be construed as negative is beyond me.
If people don’t like the schedule and are trying to contact the people who can fix it with practical suggestions than more power to them. Turning this public forum into some kind of support group for underappreciated steeple chasers like one 33 year old (33!!) has (post 43 )is embarrassing. Get some perspective. The 5 illegals tarring the roof across the street are doing more work in worse conditions than any of the elite National level athletes will be performing at Sacramento. Honestly, I think that some of the posters are just disappointed that they’ve spent alot of time and dedication and were looking to peak at nationals and had specific time goals in mind and now that may be out the window. I sympathize, but c’mon, suck it up and drive on. That’s not negative!
FOR TROY DIETZ:ARE YOU FROM ARIZONA?
Panama Kid, if you’re implying that I was somehow being disrespectful to the hard working men I referred to in my post I either wrote it poorly or you misread it. My intent was the opposite.
Entendido=Understood.I pulled out of Sac.,see you in Puerto Rico,I will buy you a RUM AND COKE
YES!!
Hey Troy! Make sure when I come over to shake your hands in P.R. you do not change the landing site on the javelin (lol)
Hey, I’m not going to jeopardize getting that drink.
Interesting stats for the Masters Outdoor:
Year Location # of 5k Runners
2002 Orono 20
2003 Eugene 131
2004 Decatur 65
2005 Honolulu 89
2006 Charlotte 115
2007 Orono 97
2008 Spokane 91
2009 Oshkosh 98
2010 Sacramento ?? (196 registered)
Thanks for doing that research, Scott. You will have to throw out 2002, however, as for some crazy reason they listed only the winners in the results. There were quite a few runners in the 5000 at Orono in 2002 (I announced the races there).
There is a general correlation with the size of the meet, as the top 3 meets in size for 2003 to 2010 were/are as follows:
Sacramento 2010 first (also first in 5000 runners)
Charlotte 2006 (3rd in 5000 runners)
Eugene 2003 (2nd in 5000 runners)
I guess we might conclude the following: (1) For a national event, the turnout of runners in the 5000 is very poor. (2) In 2006, there was a legitimate fear of heat in Charlotte, and that suppressed the 5000 total, given the size of the meet.
(3) Eugene’s total of 131 is consistent with the expectation of reasonable (albeit not optimal) conditions and the presence of distance runners in the West. (4) Quite a few 5000 runners have taken a chance on Sacramento. Still, per Pete Magill’s message, this is actually a low number in the broader scheme of things.
“It is better to light a single candle that to curse the darkness”
This meet will always be in the summer and it could well be warm almost anywhere the meet is held.
Steeple chase runners are especially hurt by the current schedule. But running a 5K at 11:00 AM or a 10K at 10 AM is no picnic either.
But complaining about the schedule, without offering concrete alternatives is not constructive.
Pete Magill threw out a good proposal but it needs fleshing out. I propose to do so here.
An evening schedule would have to be fairly short.
You probably wouldn’t want to start before 7 or so and probably need to end by 10 or so. The 5Ks and 10Ks take a lot of time to run.
I suggest that the younger 5K runners compete Wednesday evening (there isn’t time to run all the 5Ks on Wednesday evening) with the older ones running Thursday AM.
The steeple could follow on Thursday and still be done by 11 at the latest. It would make it very difficult for older runners to double 5K and steeple but there ar few who would try anyway.
The Friday schedule would now have a big whole where the steeple used to be. I suggest shutting the meet down in the early PM and let everyone get a break (including officials).
A 2nd session could be added Friday evening with the hurdles finals and the younger 10Ks.
The older 10K runners could run Saturday morning. Again the Saturday schedule would be shorter and there would be a good length break prior to the banquet.
Sunday would be unchanged.
It is important to note the events will still take the same amount of time. The met would just be spread out a little more. And the distance runners would be (more or less) grateful.
I can see certain drawbacks of this proposal but it could of course be tweeked.
I don’t know any one the people who make the schedule but I bet Pete Taylor does. I’d be happy to work with those in charge to make a better schedule.
Joanna Harper
Hey Troy and Panama – If you buy me a rum and coke, too, I promise never to complain about the heat again! Now we’re talking the important stuff! 😉
Joanna:
I know who makes up the schedule, but I will be circumspect and simply suggest that you contact our Masters Chair, Gary Snyder. He will identify the names of the people who make up the schedule (I know them, but I will not reveal them publicly).
Peter Magill:I INTEND TO BUY ALL MY GRINGO FRIENDS RUM AND COKE AND HIT THE SALSA FLOOR IN P.R.,but you have to leave your wives back in the mainland
Hey Troy, Peter & Panama there is a bar/restaurant next to the track on the beach I invite you all and any body else interested for drinks and some Puerto Rican food, local style. There should be music as well.
Hola Boricua! I’m only paying for Peter and Troy,Tu vas a pagar los demas?=Are you paying for the others?-Hablale a Luis y luego llamame,el tiene mi numero
No disrespect intended Mary but I can’t imagine complaining in a public forum about something that seems so trivial. It wasn’t my suggestion to run to the track but if it was closer it seems like a reasonable suggestion. I will introduce myself in person next time I am at an event you are competeing at. Good luck to you and all the best to all of the competitors.
Yo pago lo de ma!
On a side note-those of you who volunteer to allow us to do this- Thank-you 🙂 Always important to remember they are volunteers. I have been impressed with the volunteers ability to keep track of the 10k laps (so far ;p). They used to miscount in college all the time!
TJ –
You do have a talent for using insulting words – “trivial” “”getting all worked up” -I would say you do not have a clue about the power of language.
All I know is that I am comin to Sac and raceing with and alongside the GIANTS of my sport and I am STOKED.
It can be hard to get your true feelings across properly in text form but I have to agree with you my words could have been chosen more carefully. I do think that the “no disrespect” and “good luck to you” should also be considered on your part. I will try and be more considerate and less clueless in the future.
As many of you have indicted, the weather forecast for nationals is only improving as we get closer.
Current Accuweather forecast:
Thursday- 90
Friday- 84
Saturday- 84
Sunday- 88
I’m certainly thankful they didn’t schedule it one week earlier in which case it would be underway in these conditions:
Today- 101
Tomorrow- 103
Saturday- 103
Sunday- “only” 98
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Sacramento&state=CA&site=STO&textField1=38.5817&textField2=-121.493&e=1
looks like backing up from heats,semis and then the final in middle distance events will be tough
Leave a Reply