Elite doping survey sparks another FB manifesto by Pete Magill
Peteās friend Diana Hernandez and son Sean teamed on this shot.
The studyās conclusion: āDoping appears remarkably widespread among elite athletes, and remains largely unchecked despite current biological testing. The survey technique presented here will allow future investigators to generate continued reference estimates of the prevalence of doping.ā
The Guardian said: āNow published in the journal Sports Medicine, the research reveals how athletes were quizzed at the 13th International Association of Athletics Federations World Championships in Athletics (WCA) in South Korea and the 12th Quadrennial Pan-Arab Games in Qatar (PAG) ā both of which took place in 2011.ā
Other Pete comments:
Yeah, I have to admit that my own enthusiasm for big USATF masters races has waned. I keep telling myself itās about competing with my clubmates, but at a certain point you become responsible for validating races that are nothing but big showcases for dopers.
It doesnāt matter in bodybuilding because no one in the sport caresāyears ago, when they created doped and non-doped divisions, everyone was happy with it. In that sport, it isnāt about clean competition, itās about what can be done with their bodiesāitās like an artist taking brush to canvas (no one cares if they used dope to enhance their ability to paint).
It doesnāt really matter in pro team sports, either, as those sports are tribalāidentifying with a team, winning, and losing are all that matter. But our sport only exists because of the thrill of seeing what the human body can accomplish. We donāt have the best physiques, and cities and legions of fans donāt rally behind our individual wins. When we run well, people see the human potential within themselvesāthatās what we have to offer.
When that potential comes out of a syringe, thereās nothing to marvel at, thereās no sense of wonder or accomplishment. How many of the medalists at those big championships are clean? ā¦ How about: None of them. None. Of. Them. Drugs confer an advantage of 5-8%. So if anyone in the Top 10 dopes, and anyone else in the Top 10 is within 5-8% of him or her, then that person is doping, too. If the Top 10 are all within 5% of the top athlete, then theyāre all doping, tooāor no one in the top 10 is doping. You decideā¦.
(Regarding his Cypress 10k when he ran 31:11):
That race, right after I turned 50, is what I consider to have been my best race ever as a master. And, like the 50-year-old master that I was, while I survived the race, it beat up my body so badly that I wasnāt able to race again for 8 months, LOL! Well, okay, I tried 3 weeks later, in a 5000, and ended up on the infield, barely able to walk, after 6 laps. Seriously, my Achilles just fell apart. I ended up taking almost 4 months off over the next 5 months to heal. Finally made it back to fitness just in time to run 15:01 for 5K a week before turning 51 ā¦ which once again put me out of commission! š
And you know what, THATāS what makes those races so memorable for me. Because I trained 3 years with that 31:11 in mind, then spent almost another entire year of rehab and training to get the 15:01. The fact that I could have gotten both performances (and much more) out of syringe makes me hate doping MOREābecause the memory of what I was able to get my body to do on both those days keeps me going these days, when itās not quite at the same level.
And the thought of how meaningless those times would have been if they were synthetically producedāand how little the memories would mean at this pointāactually makes me feel a little sorry for dopers. A little. Not much. Not enough to want them in the sport. At all.
One other point: That 15:01 was my last attempt at becoming the first 50-year-old ever to go under 15 minutes. Iād thought I was a shoo-in after that 31:11, but all the months off and then very few races available once I came back limited me to two tries. The first was sabotaged by a big blow-up at work the previous day with an IT guy that left me so angry I didnāt sleep a second all nightāended up running 15:05. Then I had this one last attempt, before thereād be no other certified races in the area until many months later.
I missed by two seconds. By the time the next round of 5Ks came around, Iād started my 50s slide, and I never ran faster than 15:27 again. When people ask me how I feel about that 15:01, about being that close, I say: āAre you kidding?! I ran 15:01 at age 50!!! I feel great!!!ā Yeah, I could have doped up and run 14:45-14:50 ā¦ but it wouldnāt have meant as much as that 15:01āmostly, because it would have meant this: Nothing, nothing at all.
Can you imagine if you or I lined up 300 meters ahead of everyone else in a 5000 on the track. Then started on the gun, running the entire race minus the 300 meters (i.e., if we ran 4700 meters), then dared to take a medal for winning the race by, I donāt know, 5 or 10 meters?!! And then walked around discussing the training weād used to approach the race, and our race strategy, and all that other BS?
And if we were treated by media and meet officials as if we were legitimate winners of the race? And if the other athletes were considered poor sports if they complainedāyou know, because weād taken a 300 meter head start!!!???!!! Yet that is exactly the advantage a doper has. And weāre supposed to just pretend thatās okay, or to enjoy the race anyway. Or be scolded by someone, āYou take it too seriously.ā Yeah, I wouldnāt play pick-up basketball at the local high school with someone who always cheated, and Iām done racing against cheaters, too.
15 Responses
Are people cheating? It seems likely that a good number of the top runners cheat. That said, to say that all of the medalists at the championships are cheating without providing proof is irresponsible and unfair to those who are clean and win. I do agree that we need to address the situation but the solution may be pretty complicated especially for us masters athletes. Any thoughts on how to address the use of PEDs?
Are people cheating?
All of the top runners except for him, if I’m reading his letter correctly. All of them.
tb #2, It sure sounds like Pete Magill believes that he is the only clean runner out there. certainly there are cheats and even one is too many but his complaints sound like he is trying to blame others because he isn’t winning.
I won’t give up the sport I love because others cheat. I’ll do the best I can and live with it.
USADA suspending an M40 cyclist for using 7 different PED’s is a prime example of just how rampant doping is in all sports worldwide.
https://www.usada.org/kayle-leogrande-receives-second-doping-sanction/
You can talk about it, increase & improve testing, and throw out cheaters all you want, but sadly, doping always has and always will be with us.
I used to get the same uninformed bs that Pete is being given when I would express my version of basically the same thing Pete is saying. And, yes, to be less controversial, I will say that the number of PED users is much higher than anyone who has not been in a position to really know might think. When I won a first world championship, I did not get the gold medal, stand on the top step or listen to our anthem. But, I was given first place a couple of months later when the “winner” tested positive for “drug A, B, et cetera” (a plural). So, at least four illegal substances. Even though others suggested it must be disappointing to have to be thought second at the meet with no recognition, I was glad. Those who thought I was whining about widespread drug use had to acknowledge a guy who had cheated. Too bad we cannot afford to do more drug testing. The only good news is that as you get older the people using blow up their joints, or worse, and fall out of contention. The older you get the risks increase exponentially from PEDs. So those that feel “it did not kill me then so it will not hurt me now” will eventually pay an unfortunate price. Bravo, Pete, for telling the truth. But it is still fun to go to all the meets even though the field is definitely not level and you will sometimes lose to PED users. But in the end, you might just outlast them.
Bill, that I might outlast the cheaters is good news. Unfortunately, I know the top guys in my event and I am pretty sure that they aren’t cheating.
If I lose- and it happens- I wasn’t good enough. That’s all.
Only issue with Pete’s logic is that doping would not have helped his chronically bum Achilles. Probably would have ended his career sooner.
A couple of points:
1. The study publication was delayed because of VALID concerns about methodology. It is a sensation-seeking bit of work that is essentially meaningless. As an example, any athlete who had used cannabinoids (not even THC) would count as someone “doping”.
2. The hypocrisy among masters athletes continues to amaze. I am regularly lining up against pharmaceutically-enabled athletes – people who would not be able to train, let alone compete, without their regimens of anti-hypertensives, statins and who knows what else.
2016 stats show 48.9% of Americans using one prescription drug; 23% using THREE OR MORE; 12% using FIVE OR MORE.
If you need drugs to perform , you are a doper.
And yet…I am not even allowed to know who among my competitors is racing with a TUE.
Anyone who has been issued a TUE should have an asterisk by their name in results.So we know.
3. Until that (2) happens, please stop bleating about alleged dopers infesting our sport. You are massively exaggerating the problem.
4. Directly to Pete Magill: doping is about the glory, not the money, so if you think you can avoid dopers and pharmaceutically-enabled masters by sticking to local events – think again. International events – where at least there is the threat of testing – are a cleaner arena.
Thank you, Simon, for bringing up cannabinoids.
I take three prescription medications, sildenafil for ED, sumatriptan for migraines, and trazodone (off-label) for chronic insomnia.
I am here to discuss chronic insomnia, for which I also take (with a State medical exemption) THC. I use a chromatographically purified preparation and use it under the tongue before bedtime. The combination of trazodone and THC allows me to get to sleep, and the trazodone allows me to stay asleep. I most often cannot fall asleep with trazodone only. Using both medications, I awake refreshed.
My physician long ago took me off of Ambien and refuses to prescribe it. Moreover, I carry the rs10830963 polymorphism in the melatonin type 1B receptor and cannot take melatonin without spiking my blood glucose. It also means that, despite being fit and getting plenty of exercise, I have chronic issues with fasting glucose. If I take melatonin, my hands and feet tingle for days from microvascular damage and I suffer from tinnitus.
(I am a scientist and have a partial genome analysis. USADA is welcome to examine my medical records any time they like, and I’ll pee in a cup for them daily. I have approached them on this issue using my real name and email address.)
My life is hell without THC. I can’t sleep! To meet testing guidelines before a meet, I go through a crisis of insomnia. I recently ran a hurdles race at 8 a.m. on the second day of a decathlon, after five days without sleep and hungover from sedating antihistamines and two glasses of wine.
The USADA cannabinoid guidelines are composed of “what ifs” and “maybes”, and they just plain made up the part about relaxation. They point out that cannabinoids are known to reduce pain. So does aspirin.
Many here would not know that we have an ENDOGENOUS cannabinoid system composed of two receptors, CB1 and CB2, and neurotransmitters which pretty much do the same thing as THC. If you block the interaction of those endogenous cannabinoids with their receptors, humans develop depression and suicidal ideation. USADA is big on approved drugs, but the approved drug rimonabant was withdrawn from the market in Europe (FDA rejected it in the U.S.). Rimonabant blocks endogenous cannabinoids from reacting with CB1 and CB2. It also negates (blocks) any effect from the consumption (edibles, tinctures, smoking) of THC.
MANY old folks have trouble sleeping. It is very disturbing (a ban would be heart-breaking!) to see masters athletes banned for cannabinoid use, particularly when you see the USADA discussion, which is somewhat arbitrary and not particularly science-backed.
Humans are not born equal.
This is the consensus report from the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, published eleven days ago. USADA should revise their cannabinoid page. There is little or no evidence that cannabinoids relieve anxiety. Current conceptions are clouded by perspectives from the 1950s.
Eur J Intern Med. 2018 Jan 8. [Epub ahead of print]
The therapeutic effects of Cannabis and cannabinoids: An update from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine report.
Abrams DI
Hematology-Oncology, Zuckerberg San Francisco General Hospital, Professor of Clinical Medicine, University of California San Francisco Ward 84, 995 Potrero Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94110, USA.
The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine conducted a rapid turn-around comprehensive review of recent medical literature on The Health Effects of Cannabis and Cannabinoids. The 16-member committee adopted the key features of a systematic review process, conducting an extensive search of relevant databases and considered 10,000 recent abstracts to determine their relevance. Primacy was given to recently published systematic reviews and primary research that studied one of the committee’s 11 prioritized health endpoints- therapeutic effects; cancer incidence; cardiometabolic risk; respiratory disease; immune function; injury and death; prenatal, perinatal and postnatal outcomes; psychosocial outcomes; mental health; problem Cannabis use; and Cannabis use and abuse of other substances. The committee developed standard language to categorize the weight of evidence regarding whether Cannabis or cannabinoids use for therapeutic purposes are an effective or ineffective treatment for the prioritized health endpoints of interest. In the Therapeutics chapter reviewed here, the report concluded that there was conclusive or substantial evidence that Cannabis or cannabinoids are effective for the treatment of pain in adults; chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting and spasticity associated with multiple sclerosis. Moderate evidence was found for secondary sleep disturbances. The evidence supporting improvement in appetite, Tourette syndrome, anxiety, posttraumatic stress disorder, cancer, irritable bowel syndrome, epilepsy and a variety of neurodegenerative disorders was described as limited, insufficient or absent. A chapter of the NASEM report enumerated multiple barriers to conducting research on Cannabis in the US that may explain the paucity of positive therapeutic benefits in the published literature to date.
Nobody is commenting, so I’ll continue.
First, I very much believe in what WADA and USADA do. If you want to take PEDs, enjoy the Senior Games. Just my opinion, and I generally believe that they do a good job.
But let’s talk “arbitrary”.
On the USADA page… “Frequent marijuana smokers can experience respiratory problems including more frequent acute chest illness and a heightened risk of lung infections. Marijuana use raises the heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking which can increase the risk of heart attack. Chronic marijuana use has also been linked to mental illness including paranoia and psychosis.” Cigarettes raise the heart rate, constrict major arteries, and can lead to irregular heart rhythm. Cigarettes CAUSE a myriad of cancers and lead to an increased frequency of stroke. They ****ing kill people. And yet nicotine is not on the banned list (can you spell EUROPE?).
USADA…. “Due to the illegal nature of marijuana in most countries, the use or abuse of marijuana does not exhibit the ethics and moral judgment that upholds the spirit of sport.” Yeah, everyone in the Netherlands is a sinner. It’s not illegal where I live, and using sublingual THC with a medical license for insomnia hardly calls moral judgement into play. And, again, nicotine is not on the banned list. Smoking cigarettes is just fine, USADA’s vision with respect to spirit of track and field.
USADA…. “It has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance.” Caffeine is a known stimulant. It’s not on the banned list. Nicotine is a known stimulant. It’s not on the banned list. Even for young athletes, not to mention masters athletes who have trouble sleeping, the WADA/USADA hypocrisy is blatant. Marijuana is known for adverse effects on coordination and judgment and for induction of lethargy.
USADA…. “It (marijuana) can also decrease anxiety and tension”. There are animal models that point to this, but USADA may be confusing relaxation with lethargy. See the post above, sharing the updated opinion of the National Academy of Sciences for human use. And what happens when someone brings pot-laced brownies to a party and doesn’t tell others in attendance? Several people run off to the hospital, describing STRONG anxiety.
Caffeine is a known and well documented PED. THC produces significant motor and cognitive impairment. Take your mark, set, uh…… uh….
Cannabinoids are fat soluble. They are prohibited in competition only, but that doesn’t mean that you’re good if you ditch them for a day or two. I start preparing for major meets about three weeks in advance. It’s hell.
For sanctioned meets where I know there will not be drug testing, I assume that a week’s preparation will probably get me below pee limits. Just in case.
I hold a Ph.D. from an academic department in a major medical school. An immunologist, I’ve followed the cannabinoid literature relating to the CB2 receptor, daily, since it was first described. I don’t believe that the WADA/USADA stance is validated, but I don’t want to be banned. Those masters athletes who have been banned for cannabinoids? Schade! (German for “a pity)!
I came to this site tonight hoping to find new stuff to read (I check it 2-3x a day!) and saw new comments on the old post, so started reading from the top…. It brought back some memories I wanted to share, not relating to anything in particular but just wanted to share some stuff… I was always accused of taking “something” in high school – usually steroids or coke (was very hi energy) but never took anything and only tried alcohol three times in high school (lets not talk about college or beyond LOL).. anyways, I was amazed a few high school football players on the cross town team were taking steroids… it didn’t help them against us, but I remember thinking that was pretty crazy and sad… Then in college, a lot more athletes were taking them… I had about 15 friends play in the nfl, and I know at least 3-4 of them took them (I lived with them so I saw the anger changes, acne, etc.)… I could have obtained them from my strength coach, but never had the desire… I saw first hand how angry some of my friends would get and never wanted to become like that… However, what I did do was make a lot of money when the NCAA came to test the players! In the late 80’s, the NCAA official would be sitting in a chair in the bathroom in front of the urinals… at that time did did not really watch you hold it and pee into the cup – just that they watched you from the side… I would be ahead of the drugged athletes in single file line, walk in the bathroom, go to the third urinal over and put some type of plastic sheet over the drain, pee in it, and flush the urinal to my right. The guys behind me would dip into the third urinal to get their sample.. and pass…. I think I made about 200-300 buck doing that, which was all beer money since I was on a full ride…. Anyway, I am 51 years old and I did cheat once and really, really regret it to this day… I used to play gold 200 times a year in Kansas City, KS (Deerfield Creek) and it was a par 70. I had a 4 handicap, and was having the round of my life. I was 1 under par going into the 18th, which was a par 5. I was pin high in 2 shots, but behind a tree 4 inches in my line of sight. I moved the ball 5 inches with my foot, when my opponent who I hated was not looking…. I chipped up, 2 putted, and made par for a 69. As soon as that ball dropped in the hole, I lost every good feeling of accomplishment that i had, and realized what a mistake it was. To this day, I never shot under par, and I am confident I could have chipped it to the high side of the edge of the green, chipped close and one putted.. but I will never know, and it still haunts me…. That feeling is something I never want to experience again (and I still have the scorecard to remind me)…. anyway, just felt like posting that!
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