Only 2 or 3 clubs have prayer of winning Sacramento team title
Quick: Who won the team title at Oshkosh masters nationals last year? Hint: It’s the same team that won in 2008 and 2004 and finished in the top three in 2007, 2006 and 2005. Answer: SoCal Track Club. Under coach and hyper-recruiter Mark Cleary, this powerhouse has totaled 1,654 points over the past three outdoor nationals. The No. 2 team in points over the same period? Florida Athletic Club with 957. No. 3 was Golden West AC with 713. But track is an individual sport, right? So why should we care who the top team is? Good question. I can only guess.
Team shot of SoCal Track Club, which won 2009 Oshkosh national title.
But I won’t bother.
Still, I’m certain how SoCal does so well. It reaches far beyond its geographical base for top talent. Among its 150-plus members are athletes from Texas, Illinois, Nebraska, New York and Washington state. (And I probably missed a few.)
In a 2005 Running Times article, Brian Pope of SoCal TC was profiled:
Brian Pope won three M40 golds for SoCal TC at 2007 Orono nationals.
Living in Mississippi adds to the challenge. As Pope sees it, his home state has not really embraced running; at least the people there don’t seem to be as knowledgeable or as appreciative of excellence in running as they are in other states he has visited. In races, he often wears the singlet of the Southern California TC, even though he has never lived in California. “There are many sacrifices to be made, both personal and physical,” he says. “People where I live just don’t understand this at all.”
Of course, SoCal’s tactics are perfectly kosher, especially in the wake of USATF rule changes (partially prompted by me and several others) that let athletes transfer between associations at will.
SoCal’s likely repeat as national champion this weekend will be empty of meaning, however. Two of its athletes — M95 Leland McPhie and M90 Seymour Lampert — are guaranteed gold medals in 10 events. (Sy Lampert faces competition in only one event: the shot put.) If scoring goes 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1, then SoCal has 108 points out of the box! Sweet.
Regardless of this ridiculous situation, the 2005 Strategic Plan for USATF masters track encourages clubs and national scoring:
Goals
- Encourage member participation in Clubs to promote social interaction, training opportunities, and recognition.
- Encourage greater club involvement in fielding teams for regional and national competitions.
Objectives/Strategies
- Encourage clubs to stage “fun” meets with members trying different events.
- Conduct training clinics for current and prospective Masters’ athletes.
- Encourage clubs to host a series of “mini-meets”.
- Maintain 2005-initiated club scoring at the National Meets.
- Encourage club scoring at association and Regional Championship meets.
- Encourage clubs on an annual basis to formally recognize the best athletes for track and field categories within age groups.
Initiatives/Action Steps
- Appoint a USATF Masters Club Advocate.
- Appoint committee to review validity and fairness of club scoring at national meets.
- Obtain existing Associations and Region Championship team scoring rules and encourage standardization that would also pertain to national meets.
- Task newly appointed Mini and Specialty Meets Facilitator to assist with club meet development and promotion efforts.
Good ideas, generally. Clubs are a way of growing the sport and generating enthusiasm (and revenues). But we’re still waiting on the initiative “Appoint committee to review validity and fairness of club scoring at national meets.”
Cross country is a natural fit for team competition. Track and field is not. So why maintain the fiction that team titles matter at indoor and outdoor nationals?
But that’s just my opinion. What’s yours?
BTW, here are the top 20 teams at each of the outdoor masters nationals in which scoring was done:
2009 Oshkosh outdoor nationals team results:
1 So Cal Track Club 573
2 Mass Velocity TC 225
3 Atlanta Track Club 209
4 SC Striders 206
5 Florida Athletic Club 179
6 Potomac Valley Track Club 140
7 Golden West Athletics Club 123
7 Bohemia Track Club 123
9 Houston Elite 120
10 Tnt Racing International Track 109
11 Oregon Track Club Masters 102
12 Colorado Masters Track and Fie 99
13 Greater Philadelphia Track Clu 92
14 Pegasus A.C. 90.5
15 Midwest Masters 89
16 Fibo Track Club 88
16 Philadelphia Masters Track & F 88
18 Over The Hill TC 87
19 Heartland Masters Track Club 78
20 Dallas Masters Track & Field C 732008 Spokane outdoor nationals team results:
1 So Cal Track – Fleet Feet 694
2 Golden West Athletics Club 340.75
3 Florida Athletic Club, Inc. 285
4 So. Calif. Striders T.C. 207
5 Portland Masters Track Club 170
6 Houston Elite 130.50
7 Potomac Valley Track Club 116
8 Club Northwest 115
9 Sprint Force America 111
10 Atlanta Track Club 107
11 Fibo Track Club 104
12 Nike Central Park Track Club 103
13 Colorado Masters Track Club 98
14 Shore Athletic Club of New Jer 87
15 Southwest Sprinters Track Club 77
16 Mass Velocity Track Club 72
17 Oregon Track Club Masters 67
17 Bohemia Track Club 67
19 Waterloo Track & Field Club 62
20 Midwest Master 602007 Orono masters nationals team results:
1 Florida Athletic Club, Inc. 493
2 So Cal Track – Fleet Feet 387
3 Mass Velocity Track Club 251
4 Golden West Athletics Club 249.50
5 Potomac Valley Track Club 210
6 Atlanta Track Club 169
7 Shore Athletic Club of New Jer 152
8 Southwest Sprinters Track Club 145
9 Philadelphia Masters 142
10 Houston Elite 133
11 Fibo Track Club 125
12 Athena Track 124
13 Bohemia Track Club 93
14 Over The Hill TC 88
15 Dallas Masters Track & Field C 79
16 Carolinas Track & Field Club 76
17 Portland Masters Track Club 73
18 Waterloo Track & Field Club 72
19 So. Calif. Striders T.C. 71
19 Nike Central Park Track Club 712006 Charlotte outdoor nationals team results:
1 Brooks – Fleet Feet Racing 637
2 Florida Athletic Club 393
3 So Cal Track – Fleet Feet 332
4 Carolinas Track & Field Club 327
5 Potomac Valley Track Club 188
6 Atlanta Track Club 174
7 Philadelphia Masters 142
8 Houston Elite 121
9 Carolina Godiva Track Club 88
10 Shore Athletic Club of New Jer 86
11 San Diego Track Club 84
12 Midwest Master 82
13 Mass Velocity Track Club 80
14 Fibo Track Club 75
15 Southwest Sprinters Track Club 70
16 So. Calif. Striders T.C. 68
17 Bohemia Track Club 67
18 Over The Hill TC 64
19 Oregon Track Club Masters 54
19 Opti Msm World Elite Track Clu 542005 Honolulu outdoor nationals team results:
1 Brooks – Fleet Feet Racing 555
2 So Cal Track Club 383
3 Hawaii Masters Track Club 209
4 Potomac Valley Track Club 204
5 Florida Athletic Club 105
6 Oregon Track Club Masters 95
7 Midwest Master 81
8 Houston Elite 80
9 So. Calif. Striders T.C. 71.50
10 Atlanta Track Club 62
11 Genesee Valley Harriers 56
12 Dallas Masters Track & Field C 54
13 Bohemia Track Club 52
14 Portland Masters Track Club 48
15 Southwest Sprinters Track Club 46
16 Cny Impalas 46
17 Fibo Track Club 45
18 Green Mountain Athletic Associ 44
19 Arizona Flames Track Club 40
20 West Valley Track Club, Inc. 392004 Decatur outdoor nationals team results:
1 SoCal Track Team 157
2 Dallas Masters 118
3 Atlanta Track Club 93
4 Fibo Track Club 62
5 Midwest Masters TC 49
6 Florida Athletic Club 40 .5
7 Fleet Feet Sacramento 40
8 Houston Elite 37
9 Carolina Masters T&F Club 35
9 Green Mountain AA 35
9 Southern Cal Striders 35
12 Indiana Invaders 33
13 Waterloo track and field 27
13 Long and Strong Throwers Club 27
15 Potomac Valley TC 21
16 Central Park Track Club 20
16 Silver State Striders 20
18 Sprint Force America 18
18 Shore AC 18
20 Parkside AC 17
20 Houston Elite 17
30 Responses
Cross Country uses team scoring by 10 year age groups. There is no “overall” champion. The current track team scoring assumes all age/gender divisions are equal. For example, assume two teams are equally talented but one team is mostly M70 and the other mostly M50. The M70 team will win every time because it’s age group (competition) is simply not as a deep as in M50.
I would suggest that scoring be done as in Cross Country, that is, by ten year age groups. If an overall champion is necessary, perhaps the team that wins the most age groups should be the winner, rather than the most cumulative points. Just 2 cents.
and I would add -club championship by gender – IF there was a male club champion and a female club champion – then there might be more than 2-3 clubs in the race.
And as Chuckxc mentions – in x-c – it is by 10 year age groups and by gender- not an overall -not a how many people from how far away can we recruit who will enter 10 events and score points. Occasionally my club(which is all female) will enter an age group team or two in a national x-c championship – if it is close enough to home – and sometimes place first. It is a challenge for us but we have managed to win a handful of female age group awards.
The national masters track championship race is for the mega co-ed clubs with lots of folks in multiple age groups that happen to live near the location of the meet or with the $$ to travel to a national meet. That limits it to 2-3 clubs.
The team competition is a joke.
There are many age groups/events that are not competitive and large numbers of team points can easily be scored. As a consequence, the team score being a measure simply of the ability of the team manager to persuade, or bully, athletes to enter additional events which they would not otherwise do.
It’s that darn Art Morrow of So Cal. He is a point scoring maniac and a nice guy. ;p (hope you are reading this Art)
Do they hand out a trophy for the team champion at Outdoor Nats?
Just curious since I’ve always left prior to Sunday at Nationals and will have to do the same again this year.
I’ve never seen a team trophy for masters track.
USATF has posted the official press release for Sacramento nationals:
http://www.usatf.org/news/view.aspx?duid=USATF_2010_07_19_15_04_56
We got a team trophy in both Hawaii and Charlotte. Not sure about other years.
In 2008 GWAC was the second place club. The runner-up trophy was mailed to us because they needed to engrave the club name on it.
I just recently joined SoCal after 5 years of running as an independent. Why? Because it give me another reason to do my best. Knowing that I represent a group of athletes who care is fun, encouraging, and yet individual in the sense that I get recognition. In every Olympics, NCAA, or USATF major the identification on every runner is associated with a country, school, or CLUB. It does have value…
Thanks for the info, all. Personally, I couldn’t care less about team scoring at Outdoor Nats. However, it’s clear that the team aspect of being affiliated with a club is why some individuals have become involved in masters track.
It does seem odd that someone living on one side of the country can compete for a club in an Association on the other side of the country. However, the truth is there are some Associations that are very well organized, give lots of support, and provide lots of opportunities to compete while others are practically non-existent. I think the rule change was a good one and is athlete-centered unlike some other aspects of USATF.
About to hit the road for Sacto. Best of luck to everyone competing (regardless of your club :)). See everyone down there and stay cool!
“The man of action forced into a state of thought is unhappy until he can get out of it.”
Franz Kafka
Henry. Marvellous! As a Limey I should not be reading this but your quote made my day.
The internet world has no borders, glad you’re online, Anthony. It’s civilized of you to comment.
10 year age groups by association would be fun!
Too hard for most of us (all but a couple of us) to put together the mammoth squads in all age divisions that could compete for a title like this – or even to put together a great club team in one age division. That said, more power to those that do.
But if it was ever altered to one sex/one age group per team championship, I might be willing to do a little recruiting. 😉
As a Throwers Club, we take pride when we make a dent in the standings. The Twilight Throwers recently took 1st in the East Regional Meet for Men’s clubs!
Ken, you left out indoor champs, as that is also big for the clubs.
Twilight Throwers will be represented in Sac, but not in huge numbers. We will also represent in Chicago at the Throws Champs in August.
Clubs create a sense of unity and wearing a team logo shows who you represent as a group.
Yes, individual points and results are important but also adding in club points gives the competition for a group something else to strive for.
Do not downplay the importants of the Club…who do you think sponsors the many meets around the country!
Jim, indoor nationals are horses of a different color — since most are held on the East Coast and don’t draw as many athletes. But feel free to post the team title winners and point totals.
I didn’t mean to disparage clubs — just the idea that nationals should have a team scoring competition. I’m a club member myself!
When I turn 95, I’m going to enter EVERY event at nationals and win the team title for the Southern California Striders all by myself!
That’s the spirit! I’m thinking of entering long jump at some meets!
Leland and Betty Jarvis (she is looking to join the Twilight Throwers!) are great people and deserve the points just for entering. I too hope to do the same as I get to their level.
As for indoors…someone once told me that you can’t win unless you enter. So, if the east coast bias is in for the indoors, let someone else bid! We seem to get it by default over the years.
Go Clubs! Join One, Get a Shirt and get involved!!!
Here are the 2010 Team results….remember, Twilight Throwers only had 3 events covered for this meet with the team…
Final Team Standings – (Top 10)
1. Mass Velocity Track Club – 363 points
2. TNT International Racing – 343
3. Southern California Track Club – 339.50
4. Potomac Valley Track Club – 220
5. Florida Athletic Club – 157
6. Twilight Throwers & Central Park Track Club- 141
8. Philadelphia Masters – 114
9. Houston Elite & Shore Athletic Club – 108
11. Southwest Sprinters Track Club – 107
Follow-up…
The results were 2010 Indoors in Boston
most runners are put in as unatatched that are on many different clubs,many runners are not sanction on clubs because of the new rules on state sign ups for usatf,
A team like Shore A.C OUT OF NJ would clean up that title if they were at oshkosh,I RAN FOR THEM FOR 25 YRS
I’m a newbie, please forgive my ignorance…
What’s the point of the team title at master’s nationals when there is also the USATF National Club Track & Field Championships?
hey keith.. i think you still can run for shore ac…i’ve been since summer after my freshman year in hs , 1969.
Sacramento Bee’s story on masters nationals:
http://www.sacbee.com/2010/07/21/2903831/sacramento-state-hosts-masters.html
I actually like the concept of a team title. I belong to a club that at best; has 5 guys willing to go to a national meet. SoCal reminds me of the Yankees in baseball. I wouldn’t mind hooking up with another club in an attempt to knock them off.
buzooti-
That’s a good question. I’ll take a stab at it.
The National Club Championships aren’t specifically for masters athletes. They also have qualifying times (or, each club can enter one athlete per event if they don’t already have one that met it). The times are brutal for masters. For example, only one athlete in Sacto would qualify in the steeple (under 10 min). Most (but not all) masters athletes would be left in the dust.
Now, having a Masters National Club Championships makes a ton of sense to me where you could enter one athlete per age group or something like that.
Not all team have a LARGE masters team at the national wear it is held east or west,noth south the larger team there will win the title,all teams are not there.I now live in wisconsin,under the new new rules it hard to run for the club you want to.you need to change sanctions,so for me to still run for shore ac in NJ ,lots of red tape.so I run unatatched
There are no “junk” medals in a masters age group meet. Reference to junk medals or points is an insult to the older age bracket competitors. It is not their fault if few people compete in their events and age bracket.
We need to encourage older competitors by providing medals and ribbons to top six in each event by age bracket aand gender, forget about drug testing for masters and preserve snail mail alternatives for entering meets. We need to be patient with the time needed to allow for oldest competitors to run, jump and throw.
The concept of a team title is a joke when clubs are allowed to freely recruit from outside of the Association. They’ve worked hard to crack down on this at Club Nationals, I wish they would do the same at Masters Nationals, or else not bother with team scoring.
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