When should races be run at sizzling Sacramento nationals?
A young masters steepler has started a poll on our Forum. He asks: “Due to the high temps in Sacramento in July, when should races be run?” His choices are “1) Status Quo: everything during the day. 2) Sprints in the Day, Distance Races at night and 3) Everything under the lights. Let’s beat the heat (or avoid it, anyway).” (BTW, you have to log into the Forum to vote in the poll.) MellowJohnny, as he likes to be known, also notes that a rough schedule is now posted for Sacto nationals. See it here. Any oddities observable? Note them now, while local organizers have time to tweak the sked. Of course, field eventers also have a vote, and so do USATF officials, some of whom travel long distances. They don’t deserve to fry all day long.
31 Responses
According to weather.com, the average high in Sacramento for July is 94, and the record is 114. Extremely dry, however, with only 0.05 in. for the month.
Sounds like the distance races should be run between 7 pm and midnight. I did note, however, that the average low is 61 (bespeaking the extreme dryness), and so perhaps some longer races could be run before 8:30 a.m. Personally, I don’t like events in the early morning, if for no other reason than the logistical problems of getting breakfast, travel to the stadium, etc.
I noticed the weight throw is not a scheduled event. Are they not throwing the weight this year at nationals as they did last year?
I am likely to be one of the older runners in the 5k – so I have a great interest in having my races at a cool time of day. That being said – it is not fair to the younger runners to have to run in the heat of the day either Generally the outdoor masters schedule for the 5k and 10k runs and the track walk – goes from older to younger – women and then men – alternating – women,men by age groups. Sometimes the loc runs it men, women. The youngest men and women are stuck out on the track in the late morning or early afternoon when it can be extremely hot. That is not fair to them but having the oldest out there in those temperatures is likely to see many more heat casualties.
In any case – usually the earliest runners are on the track just before the sun comes up – there is no food available in the dorm cafeteria – no coffee – nothing – if one is in a hotel – the hotel breakfast – if any – does not serve much before 6:30-7 am. At some meets the first runners are on the track and the clock is not set up, the lap counters are milling around and everyone is hungry and caffeine deprived.
My preference would be to run the longer track events in the late afternoon and evening – assuming the track has lights. This was done at the WMA meet in Puerto Rico for the longer track races. Competitors and Officials can find food and drink and spectators are not roasting in the sun wondering when heat stroke will set in.
One would hope the the examples of Charlotte and Clermont,Florida might encourage more rigorous oversight by the Masters Track Committee of the time scheduling in Sacramento.
They need to keep in mind – as do the folks in charge of the meet in Sacramento – that a poorly scheduled meet next July – running events in the heat of the day, causing poor performances and even health emergencies can impact the attendance at the WMA meet in Sac in 2011. It could also seriously impact the health of some athletes – does the Sac LOC care about that?
Doing the pentathlon under the lights in Charlotte was a blast. I hope “cooler” heads will prevail in Sacramento and we can do it again. Prevailing winds usually shift in the evening, meaning that we might not have a headwind for the first time since Charlotte in the 200m!
Under average conditions, running under the lights is the way to go. However, even though the climatological high is in the mid 90s, it could be 110. Sundown is about 8:30, so under those circumstances, it still would be quite hot until later in the evening. Hopefully, there can be some schedule flexibility. It will be possible to know that it will be extremely hot in Sacramento several days before the meet.
Patrick Haines
Las Cruces, NM
Sacramento has something called the Delta breeze that usually occurs in early evening when the winds blow in from the delta of the San Joaquin and Sacto rivers. It’s a cooler marine breeze and can lower the temps 10 to 15 degrees. Hornet Stadium at the A.G. Spanos Sports Complex at CSUS is a first class facility — it has hosted Oly Trials and NCAA Div I Championship meets. There are plenty of lights for night time events. There is also an adjacent warm-up track. Early evening events with lights and a cool breeze would make for happy distance runners.
Hornet Stadium has huge trees that line its western border and the warm up track so once it’s around 6 or 6:30 in the evening most of the stadium will be in the shade. Also there is NO humidity in Sacramento in the summer so it cools off nicely in the mornings and evenings. That being said even those who like it hot(like me) probably would want to avoid being out there between 3 and 6pm on a hot day.
These are all good common sense suggestions, but do the higher ups care what is best for the athlete? Look at our history. The fiasco in Charlotte N.C 2006. They actually had to have the Fire Dept come out and shut the meet down because too many people were passing out from heat related illnesses. When I asked one of the officials why we could not have the meet at night, his response was that the volunteers wanted their free meal and awards banquet on Saturday night,so the meet would have to be during the day.
Expect the same in Sacramento. When has it ever been cool during Masters nationals? Orono Maine, Spokane, Charlotte. They have all been hot venues at that time of the year. Never has the meet been scheduled to have any events run at night for the good of the athlete.
Consideration should also go to scheduling the high jump and pole vault during the evening too. Both events can take several hours to run off and while the effects of the heat on the top jumpers is hard to gauge, it is a real issue.
Everyone seems concerned about the heat and some even complained about Orono but if we have the meet in the summer, where can we go that can guarantee us “perfect weather”?
Responding to Tim Edwards and Mike Walker, the only thing we can do is play the odds. Average August high for Bangor (Orono) is a lovely 78 degrees, and average low is 57. Almost ideal weather, and yet we have run into some heat there at least twice (bad luck to hit longshot weather like that).
Still, playing the odds says “go to Orono every even year, and go to Seattle or Eugene every odd year.” Average August high in Seattle is 75 degrees, for crying out loud. Easy flight into Sea-Tac airport. As far as I know, the outdoor nationals have never been held in the state of Washington. While I’m on a roll, what about Vancouver (British Columbia) and call it the US-Canada champs? We do need contestants, after all.
Places like the aforementioned Charlotte (North Carolina), Clermont (Florida), etc. are bad bets, I am afraid.
I love the Sacto track and facilities, and am definitely going to compete in the Nationals meet (barring injury or illness).
But if my age group’s 5000 and 10,000 are happening any time other than early morning or evening, I’ll be running shorter events just for fun – maybe play around with a 400 and 800 double.
Because there’s no way I’m going to train hard through the summer to race distance in that heat. It absolutely obliterates any chance of a fast time, and it shuffles the finish places based not upon who’s the best runner but upon who can tolerate extreme heat the best.
But here’s the thing: the Sacto people are pretty good at putting on meets. So I’m figuring they’ll probably do what they can to make this one work out well. And if the 5K and 10K can’t be run at a reasonable time? … Hey, it’d be a blast to see what I could do a one-lapper in after all these years!
My bad. Outdoor “nats,” as Mellow Johnny would call them, have never been held in western Washington (that’s what I meant to say). They have been held three times in eastern Washington (Spokane), where the climate is far different from what one finds in Seattle or Tacoma.
Peter’s suggestions are worth considering. A Canadian/US championships would certainly be interesting.
The only down side might be the travel cost for much of the country.
Most of our recent championships are practically in southern Canada anyways. Spokane, Oshkosh, Orono, Boston. Even Lisle, Ill is only a few miles in latitude south of Canada.
For all concerned I suggest you go back to Ken’s blog’s in August. I had written an after action review (AAR# of the Oskosh Nationals and he published it in a blog in August. I saw the time of day of the 5000m, 10000m and Steeple as being an issue there #as well as a few other things# and in the AAR offered some suggestions on how to address it in a manner that is fair to both athletes and officials, #since with out officials we would not have a track meet). I wrote it for and submitted it to USATF and the Master’s committee. I sent copies to Ken Stone and Becky Sisley, the active atheltes representative, because I wanted someone to see it in the event the AAR got “round filed.” I know that Becky brought the issue up to the Master’s committee, and from what I heard back is that the specific scheduling is left up to the local organizing committee.
That brief’s well but unless someone on the local committee has ever tried to run a long distance track race in the middle of the day they are more than likely going to go with what “last years schedule looked like.”
At the end of the day, it is not really my fight since I am an 800/1500 guy and for me the heat is not an issue in those races. What I will say is that I saw an issue, took the time to try and professionally address the issue with suggestions to our governing organization (USATF) and never got an answer from the organization. What I will also say is that our athletes rep, Becky Sisley did take the time to read, respond to me, bring the suggestions to the Masters committee and let me know the results (which I stated above). So from where I sit kuddo’s to Becky and not so much to USATF as an organization in the sense of being responsive. Part of what I was trying to point out in August was that if I am seeing these things then I am sure others are and as our governing body USATF should be responsive to what is best for its members.
For those interested in what I wrote in the AAR the link to Ken’s orginal blog from August is:
http://masterstrack.com/blog/005837.html
v/r
Rob
Ken asks: Any oddities observable?
Unless they are going to run a shuttle hurdle relay (like Oskosh), it looks like this schedule is an exact copy/paste of what Oskosh had with the times cut out on the left, and the dates changed at the top of each day.
Rob
Seattle has the perfect weather, but lacks the perfect facility. West Seattle Stadium is the only facility in the city that can handle all events (including steeple and hammer) and they have almost no parking.
At the risk of aggravating someone, I’ll add my 22 cents worth. The end of July/first week of August comprise a tiny window. Sept. 12-14 would be terrific. I’m a 9/11 cat. With a Nats on 9/12, that would make me a year younger instead of almost a year older in my age group.(^_^)
Jerry
Becca, I would agree with you regarding Seattle.
What about University of Puget Sound in Tacoma? They have an excellent facility, dorm rooms and parking is not an issue as far as I can tell. Close to the airport 20-30 minute drive. Hmmmm…
The only place it should be held is in West Texas during late July, early August! It can be call the USATF “No Country For Old Men” Masters Outdoor Track and Field Championships. The higher ups in Indy can call it in a coin toss against the next best site to determine the location. Whether you like it or not, ” You can’t stop what’s coming…”
No weight throw at the outdoor nationals this year. Last year was an experiment; this year the meet director says it’s a no go. At the Convention however it was approved as a regular event at the outdoor nationals beginning in 2011, so after this year it’ll be there every year.
Because of this, in 2010 the weight throw championship will be held as part of the Throws Championships in Lisle, Illinois August 7-8. It will be done like the superweight was done last year but allowing those who want to contest the event to take three additional throws at the end of the Throws Pentathlon on Saturday with the first 3 counting only for the TP and all six counting for the weight throw championship. For those who want to do the weight and not the TP they will be added to their age group when the TP gets to the WT.
This is why it’s frustrating to be a masters athlete in the US. We will not be listened to as I would like to run the 5k but am afraid it’ll be at 12:30pm-1pm when it could be horrendous. I’ve heard the excuses about the Pentathlon being held as well and their events are all short bursts so they could wait for the 5ks to be done.
If the 5ks started at 7am and went nonstop until the last one, I think most people would accept that. Ideally, the 5k should be on Thursday evening, the 3k steeple Friday evening and the 10k early Sat. morn to help host the awards dinner.
If the sceduling is such that it will put us in harms way on 7/22, we athletes may need to stand up and demand change to the sked.
I wouldn’t worry about Worlds 11′ because there’s enough time in the meet to make the distance events work.
Alluding to what Mary Harada had noted, I like to think outside the box. Why do we need to run all the like events at the same time? For one thing, it gets kind of boring after a few hours of the same thing. 5Ks should start early in the morning but don’t continue into the late morning and possibly the afternoon. 6 a.m. and Noon are a far cry different. There is a point in time, locals can probably pinpoint it better than I, that the heat hits. 9 a.m., 10 a.m.–that’s what it is here in Southern California. STOP. Run the heat neutral or favorable events then. Later in the evening, when the heat goes down, resume the 5Ks into darkness. For people who double, balance the age groups so the same groups do the 10K or walk in the evening. Its a relatively simple schedule shift that makes much more sense in a notorious heat abusive climate. And simple is better for what is essentially a novice LOC. They better learn fast, because it will be in for much more the following year. Maybe they did get some input from the Senior Olympics at Stanford. Step one, Sanction the meet.
Further: The people we individual athletes should be able to communicate through would be our Masters Games Committee. I just went, 4 layers deep into the USATF website to find out who that currently is (It should be one page below our home page on our own website–but thats an old wound). THERE IS NO GAMES COMMITTEE representative listed!!! Not one? No committee? Did we have no volunteers to do the job or was this just neglected on the website? I’d volunteer to join that committee myself, but I’m poison because I sure as hell would not be closing off entries 6 weeks in advance (oops, another old wound).
Oh, a tag for Peter’s note on the precipitation: That .005″ is the one odd drizzle they get every ten years, averaged out.
Thanks for mentioning my name, Andy, as that allows me to step up to the plate once again. And good for you for mentioning going “outside the box” in your thinking. If we’d had huge turnouts for these meets and never ran into a heat problem, that would be one thing, but that’s not our history. In fact, turnouts have been modest and heat has been a recurring problem. In 2006 we literally almost lost a runner in the 5000 (this was at Charlotte) and the meet had to be stopped on the same day (Thursday) as well as on the next day. That was probably the worst.
In 1999 (Orlando) people complained bitterly about the heat and lack of shade, and in 2001 the meet was scheduled around the expected tough conditions in Baton Rouge. I won’t go on about all the problems we have had at other meets, but they have been many and we dodged a bullet by burying Clermont for 2009 — do people even remember that?
Just took a look at the schedule for Sacramento 2010. First day includes 5000 run and the trials in 400 and 800 as well as pentathlon as far as events that get on the track. Well, history has shown that the 800 trials are a joke, an absolutely unnecessary event. Let’s delete that event. The 400 trials are almost as big a joke, and I vote for deleting that event as well. Might run two 5000s in the morning, a race for M60 and M65 at 8:00 and one for M50 and M55 at 8:30. Wait until 7:00 pm to resume the 5000s and run them until 10:00 pm.
Saturday the events include, among others, the 10,000 run and the trials for the long hurdles. What, does the track have only 2 lanes? I have been in masters T&F since Dec 1976 and never recall seeing a 400h or 300h field that was so large and so well balanced that trials were actually needed. Rub that one out.
Friday has, among other events, the 5,000 racewalk (a heat-sensitive event for sure) and the trials in the short hurdles. Again, does the track have only 2 lanes? I have NEVER seen a hurdle field so large and well balanced that it needed trials (see comment above about long hurdles). Rub out that event.
With these unnecessary events eliminated we will have more room on the schedule. No races longer than 1500 meters after 9:00 am. Contest those longer races between 8:00 and 9:00 in the morning and 7:00 to 10:00 at night. Don’t look for places on the schedule to run trials in long or short hurdles or in the 400 and 800 because you don’t need them. If you don’t believe me, go back over the last 20 years of results for the outdoors.
First off, thanks Ken for posting my poll info in your blog. I appreciate it. And thanks for your comments, everyone. As I hoped, it’s clear a lot of you have the same concerns I do about the heat.
As a math teacher, I’m definitely with Peter Taylor on this and think we need play the odds if at all possible with temperatures. I realize that a lot of this has to do with which venues, LOC’s bid for nationals.
At the same time, I understand that Sacto is hosting Worlds in 2011 so it makes sense for them to host outdoor “nats” =) in 2010 (not that I’m concerned about them hosting a meet given their history of hosting big meets). However, we still need to play the odds and have events (track & field) in the coolest part of the day. Night being preferred for me.
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